Moreover the reputation value is hard coded `as <dt>Reputation</dt>
2021-05-12 13208, 2021
akashgp09
<dd>0</dd>` in the bookbrainz-site.
2021-05-12 13207, 2021
akashgp09
How about incrementing repuation value with +3 points when the editor applies a revision.
2021-05-12 13222, 2021
Mr_Monkey
Yes, that's correct. The idea is that at some point we'll be able to revert revisions (that's currently not implemented), and that should update the users reputation (with the assumption that a revision that needs reverting is a bad revision, hence -1 reputation)
2021-05-12 13257, 2021
Mr_Monkey
But I agree that we can already start the incrementing part. Perhaps +1 for a non-reverted revision
2021-05-12 13254, 2021
akashgp09
I will take this over and implement the incrementing part for now. Thank you : )
2021-05-12 13234, 2021
Mr_Monkey
No, thank you !
2021-05-12 13242, 2021
akashgp09 has quit
2021-05-12 13201, 2021
CatQuest
hmmmmhmp... i can't help but feel. if you'll let me say it. that this "reputation" thing is maybe a bit misaligned in priorities..
2021-05-12 13201, 2021
CatQuest
a bit of a thing is that we see in eg. lb how ther eare lsiten-spammers now.
2021-05-12 13201, 2021
CatQuest
i mena it's easy ot get a "high" reputation by doing things like many small implemntations. or intentionally doing something wrong or halfway, jsut ot enter evne more revisions later...
2021-05-12 13209, 2021
CatQuest
what I mean is that I think really that some form of anti-"gaming" the reputation system needs ot be in place for mthe start
2021-05-12 13252, 2021
CatQuest
the same is true for reverted = -1 in reputation
2021-05-12 13252, 2021
CatQuest
say
2021-05-12 13245, 2021
CatQuest
say if the datamodle changes, the styleguidlines are latered. etc etc. which owudl mean 10 years alter old revisions that were made wich were *correct* at the time are reverted or chnaged becase now, they are not
2021-05-12 13246, 2021
CatQuest
in mb, i have edits that where voted down 13 years ago, but are the actual way to do it now. it was wrong for the datamodel then (a-head of its time if you will) but correct now
2021-05-12 13201, 2021
CatQuest
another 15 years in the future an who knowns what *brainz datamodel will look like
2021-05-12 13250, 2021
CatQuest
not to mention grudge reverting to make someone elses reputation plumit, etc
2021-05-12 13205, 2021
CatQuest
all the issues with voting in mb will be transferred to reputation
2021-05-12 13259, 2021
CatQuest
i don't thingk it's a bad idea to have a statistic on people's profiles which show how many of theri revisions whre reverted mind. but like, let the stats and the revisions speak for themselves
uh. what is 🤓 anyway? a bespectabled person with big teeth??
2021-05-12 13211, 2021
CatQuest
(free books yay)
2021-05-12 13217, 2021
Freso
U+1F913 NERD FACE
2021-05-12 13222, 2021
CatQuest
:P nerd face
2021-05-12 13217, 2021
Freso
(Had to give Unicode codepoint too, of course, as a true 🤓.)
2021-05-12 13223, 2021
CatQuest
:D
2021-05-12 13240, 2021
CatQuest
actually I'd be interested in your view about the above ^^as yo uworke with comunity and spammers and such
2021-05-12 13213, 2021
Freso
I think it’s fine to experiment with things and try things out, and figure out how to deal with it if/when issues arise.
2021-05-12 13258, 2021
Freso
No system is perfect, so let’s not let the hunt for perfect prevent us from finding something good.
2021-05-12 13213, 2021
CatQuest
I agree with that sentiment very much
2021-05-12 13252, 2021
CatQuest
i'm not actulaly looking for perfect, I'm looking for "let's make sure to learn of our previous experiences"
2021-05-12 13258, 2021
CatQuest
perhaps. a robust fundation to build the experiemnting on. right now we still lack rudimentary infrastructure :D
2021-05-12 13211, 2021
CatQuest
(eg, reversion, series)
2021-05-12 13207, 2021
CatQuest
now at first I tink the reputation thing won't be an issue at all, sicne the community is stll fairly small and dedicated 🤓s :D
2021-05-12 13215, 2021
CatQuest
i just don't wnat us t oget i na possition where we have to redo everything or something becasue the systme we wrote didn't have salability in mind (here scalability is: more users and spammers)
2021-05-12 13227, 2021
Freso
I main, push come to shove, we just DROP (or ignore) that column.
2021-05-12 13240, 2021
CatQuest
I guess :)
2021-05-12 13252, 2021
Freso
I don’t think this is necessarily such an invasive experiment that it would involve a lot of work to "undo" it.
2021-05-12 13201, 2021
CatQuest
that's true
2021-05-12 13226, 2021
CatQuest
i don't want to get into a situiation where people game it and use this as soem sort of "I'm higher reputation thna you o stfu" or the like
2021-05-12 13216, 2021
Freso
Yeah. If anyone does that anywhere in MeB (e.g. an autoeditor to a "beginner" editor), please do report them/let me know. :)
2021-05-12 13224, 2021
CatQuest
indeed
2021-05-12 13249, 2021
CatQuest
usually i get the opposite, fiarly new editors acting liek i don't know siht XD
2021-05-12 13205, 2021
CatQuest
usually i get the opposite, fairly new editors acting like i don't know shit XD
2021-05-12 13213, 2021
Mr_Monkey
Maybe the issue is more the naming? Maybe "reputation" suggests a value judgement and we could do with "applied revisions" and "reverted revision" (like on MB)
2021-05-12 13214, 2021
Freso
Yeah. :)
2021-05-12 13228, 2021
CatQuest
yea! that's a good point
2021-05-12 13206, 2021
Mr_Monkey
Unless we want the system to evolve into some other form of reputation calculations that actually reflect a user's standing in the community, but nothing I can think of right now
2021-05-12 13217, 2021
CatQuest
I try really hard thne not to drag my history aroudn and be like "yo, I'mma let you finish, but i've been her efor 15 years now and.."
2021-05-12 13243, 2021
CatQuest
hmm yea
2021-05-12 13201, 2021
CatQuest
it's hard to *programmaticaly* calculate these things
2021-05-12 13206, 2021
Mr_Monkey
Indeed
2021-05-12 13221, 2021
CatQuest
which is what I meant with "letting the stats speak for themselves"
2021-05-12 13243, 2021
CatQuest
for AE electios. I look at failed edits. see how long ago they where. see what kidn of arguments they made.
2021-05-12 13253, 2021
Freso
CatQuest: Re: that, I also think a big part of it is exactly the community/social aspect. Communities have certain norms for behaviour and those can be really hard to change. My job is essentially to try and steer the community’s behaviours/norms in a "good" direction and help prevent bad actors from taking them in a "bad" direction. New people who are not "socialised" yet obviously haven’t "internalised" (or learned to
2021-05-12 13253, 2021
Freso
mimic) these norms/behaviours yet. :)
2021-05-12 13213, 2021
CatQuest
exactly!
2021-05-12 13235, 2021
CatQuest
and.. i gus i t thing that having a "reputation" mecanism, sort of attracts "bad" direction a bit? idk
2021-05-12 13239, 2021
Freso
(Also, my intercultural communication and ethnography uni courses might be showing. 😂)
2021-05-12 13248, 2021
CatQuest
:D
2021-05-12 13224, 2021
CatQuest
eventually we're going to need a comm. man. on bb as well (not it!) but that is stil lfor the future
2021-05-12 13250, 2021
Mr_Monkey
I think for now, as was mentionned before, it's OK to start trying out this feature.
2021-05-12 13250, 2021
Mr_Monkey
If we feel like "reputation" is too big a word for glorified addition and subtraction, we can always just rename it.
2021-05-12 13206, 2021
CatQuest
good point
2021-05-12 13213, 2021
Mr_Monkey
i.e. applied revisions/ reverted revisions
2021-05-12 13220, 2021
Freso
I mean, I’m CommMan for all of MeB AFAIK (which is also why I’m poking at the LB sockpuppets), so I assume I’m also for BB… :)
2021-05-12 13231, 2021
CatQuest
oooh :D
2021-05-12 13234, 2021
CatQuest
well then
2021-05-12 13221, 2021
CatQuest
then since I have you both here. there is one thing: looking at https://beta.bookbrainz.org/statistics you'll see both "goldilox" and "agathacrustie" (wich was apparently the same person too) and this person deleted their account (twice)
2021-05-12 13223, 2021
Freso
But yeah. I’m fine with experimentation, as long as the community is okay with it, and as long as we’re not going down a path that will be (really) hard to diverge from.
2021-05-12 13233, 2021
CatQuest
since that was done it shoudl be removed from bb too right?
Actually, come to think of it, one question could be whether we want to synchronise the editor renaming (ie., so it’s the same "Deleted Editor #xyz" on both) or whether it’d be better to _not_ do that, to increase the "anonymisation" of the deleted accounts. 🤔
2021-05-12 13240, 2021
Freso
On one hand it might be good to be able to link them across the sites. OTOH, being able to link across sites means greater chance of being able to identify the editor post-mortem.
2021-05-12 13229, 2021
Freso
I’m kind of leaning towards keeping them in sync if possible, to be able to keep track of deleted bad actors.
2021-05-12 13244, 2021
Mr_Monkey
That's sometimes useful for us for tracking vandalism and such, I suppose, but we do have the MB row id as reference
2021-05-12 13208, 2021
Freso
Right.
2021-05-12 13209, 2021
Mr_Monkey
Maybe a question for the main channel at next meeting?
2021-05-12 13225, 2021
Freso
The question is kind of hurting my brain right now. 😂
2021-05-12 13206, 2021
CatQuest
my gut instinct is to keep the bb rowid on bb deleteds for *now* but to be able (for account admins) to see the mb rowid easily
2021-05-12 13220, 2021
Freso
I think I’ll consider it a bit more. CatQuest, can you link ticket when you make it? I’ll try and put the question there and then maybe mull it over some more and maybe bring it up on Monday.
I've had experience making tickets for bb by now :D
2021-05-12 13239, 2021
Mr_Monkey
Isn't that your full-time job? :p
2021-05-12 13243, 2021
CatQuest
hahahaha
2021-05-12 13206, 2021
CatQuest
now to get peopel to pay me for it! :P
2021-05-12 13225, 2021
Freso
"but people are only willing to produce value when given monetary incentive, hence why capitalism is the only system that can work2#!$@!?#$!?!?#$!@>#!#$<!$!@" 🙄
2021-05-12 13242, 2021
Freso
I mean, yes. 👀
2021-05-12 13218, 2021
CatQuest
uh I mean hat I was kinda joing :P (I'd still do it evne if never paid :P))
2021-05-12 13248, 2021
CatQuest
joking*
2021-05-12 13210, 2021
CatQuest
since monkey sid "job" :P
2021-05-12 13212, 2021
CatQuest
said*
2021-05-12 13244, 2021
CatQuest
anyway that capitalism incentive also means people *only* do it for the money, so they don't care about it at all.
2021-05-12 13259, 2021
CatQuest
so it's less quality work.
2021-05-12 13209, 2021
CatQuest
only if someone enjoys what they do
2021-05-12 13220, 2021
Freso
I know. :) I’m just in a very (outwardly) anti-capitalist mood lately. :p
2021-05-12 13228, 2021
CatQuest
it'll be the thing they happily do. yea
2021-05-12 13229, 2021
CatQuest
yea
2021-05-12 13246, 2021
CatQuest
it was more a reaction to the "job" comment
2021-05-12 13218, 2021
CatQuest
(on the other hand i 'd want peopel who do a good job have thier wrok rewarded/valued)
