#metabrainz

Quesito: go sign up with metabrainz as a "personal" user in order to create an account in the system.

I have an account as a "Limited User"

did we turn of the github bot for new PRs?

s/of/off

yvanz: https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/MBS-9194 then

MBS-9194: Add a bunch of sites to the "other database" whitelist

I may have done something incorrect

Quesito: limited user is the standard for new MusicBrainz accounts

I think you need to sign up separately in the MetaBrainz site though :)

Quesito: https://metabrainz.org/profile

what happens when you go there?

ok will try again thanks reosarevok

ruaok: need to login with musicbrainz

do that, then try again

Got it--now working

now you should see "Commercial users pending approval" yes?

In! apologies Gentlecat!

no problem

Yes

grand.

ok, now to delve into how we do business and what sort of offerings we have.

ok--these are all pending?

of all the projects listed at MetaBrainz.org, the only one mature enough to really draw supporters and donors is musicbrainz.org

ok

yes, I'll get to that in a minute.

ok

the next closest project is AcousticBrainz.

ok

but really, when someone comes to support us, we effectively say that when they support us, they can use any of our data.

slicing and dicing our products and pricing each one just doesn't add up.

right on

but putting prices on support tiers does: https://metabrainz.org/supporters/account-type

yes

mobile is for people doing non-free mobile apps.

ok

meaning that if someone has a paid mobile app or one that has premium features that need to be paid for, that is considered commercial use and they should support us.

otherwise free mobile apps go to...

yes

now , the margins on mobile are shit. and mobile apps tend to not make a lot of requests.

ok

mobile is $10/month or so.

the supporter can choose what amount to support us to. the dollar figures are really only there as differentiators of the different levels.

so, we could have a $50 mobile supporter. totally fine.

right

bronze is next at $100.

the $100/month support is a bit of a threshold.

ok

we have two prodominant ways in which our supporters can consume our data.

our API: https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Development/XML_Web...

I don't need to explain an API, right?

no

phew. :)

our API for musicbrainz is limited to 1 request a second.

ok

this is called rate limiting and it is big deal in the grand scheme of things.

so, if you have a 1,000 requests to make to MB it will take at least 1,000 seconds.

that is ok for some people, but for the most part not.

I see.

we plan to allow higher rate limits in the future, but are still not there yet.

ok, so all supporters no matter level are at this rate?

the other option is to use a VM we publish: https://musicbrainz.org/doc/MusicBrainz_Server/...

exactly, that is a very important observation.

ok

the VM allows someone to download all the code in a Virtual Machine setup. they can then point their clients to their own setup and make as many requests per second as they would like.

do a majority of supporters choose VM?

a lot yes.

because the VM also decouples them from us.

makes sense.

while we work hard to keep the servers running 100% of the time, we're far from it. 2016 was terrible for us.

now since our servers are in germany, things are much better, but we still have massive improvements to make

still, our stuff could go down.

imagine a scenario where ticketmaster depends on us.

ok

and then the servers crash?

imagine now if they started selling U2 concert tickets and our shit crashed and it took their shit with it.

yeah

it is a contrived example that doesn't really apply, but you get the ide.

idea.

the downside to the VM is that it is a stale copy of the data.

yes

in order to refresh the data you need to either:

1) load new data dumps from here: ftp://ftp.eu.metabrainz.org/pub/musicbrainz/dat... -- these files are large and may take hours to import.

using the data dumps is very inconvenient, especially if you need to keep up to date.

ok

2) you use the live data feed. this is where the VM can check to see if new data has been added to MB (or changed or removed).

live data feed == replication == replication token

it is all the same, the nomenclature can be a little muddled.

yes, might take me a minute with the nomenclature. but understood.

in order to access the live data feed, you need an access token.

you get the access token via the metabrainz.org site

yes, saw that

the price floor here is $100/month.

ok

we do not give anyone (unless there is a special deal on the table) access to the live data feed unless they are paying us $100/month.

a special deal could be where someone feeds data to us or otherwise gives us something in return.

ok

this is quite tricky and you should leave those for me to deal with initially.

sounds good

(they have a history of not panning out so well, so I am more careful with them)

ok

people like zas who are in charge of keeping servers running want to get things squared away with plenty of time before a new service goes live.

that bring about this common workflow:

1) customer contacts us, signs up as "stealth startup".

2) they work on their product to add MusicBrainz data/support, but while they do this, pay us nothing.

yeah

3) during this phase we do not give them access to the live data feed.

4) towards the end of this phase, people should come back to use an hammer out final details for support.

right

5) more on this in a bit, but once we agree, we green light them. A default signup with metabrainz has no access to the live data feed. We can put them into "waiting", which is the

"we're figuring our shit out or are developing stuff" phase.

once they come back, we take them out of waiting and them publish them on our page.

gotcha

and they appear here: https://metabrainz.org/supporters

right

6) if someone pays us less than $100/month, we approve them to be "limited". A limited meb account is different from a limited mb account.

Limited in meb means, "no live data feed"

Stealth start-ups will come to us near their launch date and will want to get access to the live data feed.

I normally suggest 2-3 weeks before launch -- at that point we need to get their legal address into the meb site. that address goes on the invoices we send them.

ok

and we'll get their logo and a quip about what they do and we publish that on our site.

I normally also tweet from the metabrainz account welcoming them into the fold.

right

that is the most common workflow for us.

ok

we're going to change that soon, but you can ignore that for now.

ok

questions so far?

The pending list, is mostly stealth startups that are in the 'developing phase' and/or need to be checked in on?

the pending list includes these types:

1) people who have signed up with us and have not been contacted yet.

2) people who have signed up with us and have been contacted, but have not responded yet.

the "Commercial users in the waiting list"

I got it.

are people who need to be checked up on periodically. but we don't have to deal with that right this second.

ok--but perhaps a system for that in future?

yes, there is a lot of room for improvement there.

ok

other questions?

not at the moment.

ok, lets dive into some examples.

sounds good

ugh. a bit behind. :(

I blame xmas. yeah, that.

see that email?