#metabrainz

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      • BrainzGit
        [bookbrainz-site] prabalsingh24 opened pull request #468 (UserCollection…CollectionPage): CollectionView page https://github.com/bookbrainz/bookbrainz-site/p...
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      • prabal
        Goodmorninggg
      • ishaanshah
        Morning!
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      • pristine___
        ruaok: do we have an endpoint or something to query artists relation and mapping?
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      • jmp_music
        Morning!
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      • ruaok
        pristine___: moin! the mapping is up and I can put up the ar-ar stuff later today:
      • pristine___
        Wow! 🌹
      • ruaok
        and the json version is available by just adding a "json" to the end of the URL path:
      • pristine___
        <3
      • yvanzo
        mo’’in’
      • diru1100
        Morning!!
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      • CatQuest
        Mr_Monkey: hey-oh!
      • Mr_Monkey
        Hi !
      • CatQuest
        so the reaon i took bakc https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/BB-503 was that i took a look at Author-work and saw that tre is some stuff
      • BrainzBot
        BB-503: Add missing, and improve current Work-Work relationships
      • CatQuest
        spesifically ID 35 and ID 34 which i tihnk might should have an accompanying work-work relationships
      • "Reconstruction"
      • "Indicates that an author reconstructed a work from incomplete fragments of an original, previously lost work."
      • there shoudl be a "work is a recornstruction of work" too right?
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      • (especially sicne ther emight be several reconstrictinos of the same work)
      • by different authors
      • Mr_Monkey
        Possibly, yes
      • CatQuest
        or the same author at differnt times
      • lost work would never have an edition (probably) but it *did* excist soshoudl ahve a work entity
      • Mr_Monkey
        I agree
      • CatQuest
        second is "Revision"
      • "Indicates that an author revised a work to create a new work."
      • i deifintily think it sohuld have a "work is a revision of work"
      • but that also comes the question, what is the difference of "dervative (ID 55)" and revision?
      • all in all i dislike the "derivative" term, I'd use "version of" for more general and "revision" for a spesific concept to mirror this author-work one
      • Mr_Monkey
        Derivative work has a more specific application in copyright law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work
      • CatQuest
        aaaha
      • oh now i see
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      • ok so, I am hitting some mayor "english isn't my native language" butts here. but i'm learning so much for this bookbrainz expansion! (it reminds me how i learned so much terminology after i joined musicrainz)
      • Mr_Monkey
        :)
      • CatQuest
        musicrains? cranes of music. anyway
      • Mr_Monkey
        That's nice to read
      • *toto_africa.mp3*
      • (musicrainz?)
      • CatQuest
        right so. should we a) have a more generic "is a version of" to be the "parent" of all these "some kind of version" or is "derivative" an ok "parent" here. and b) so should ve have "revision" relatinoship too
      • :thumb: i'll read these both today
      • it seems from just looking here that "revisioning" is something on a level we don't have (ie not new *work* but sometihng undearneat that)
      • maybe
      • hm!
      • should we have a combination "edit/revision" relationship?
      • Mr_Monkey
        I think they would just be separate work with a revision relationship.
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      • One or both of which may appear in an edition
      • CatQuest
        gotta think aobut not having *too* many relationships either. atleast unti lthe relationship choosing mecanism is better
      • ah yes, let me think of an example.. early versions of ord of th rings.. was idiffernt wasn't it?
      • and early versions of narnia. there "lion witch & wardrobe" was the actulaly first written book
      • *lord of the rings*
      • i may have to clean my keyboard :/
      • Mr_Monkey
        There are lots of examples out there of books that were published, and then after some period of time the author chose to revise and publish again.
      • Right, all of those would be revisions
      • CatQuest
        hmm I wonder if "definite" or "authors version" or books are revisinos
      • yep , we need "work is revision of work" then
      • Mr_Monkey
        Possibly? I guess it depends on what was done to the content, but I'd assume so
      • CatQuest
        how is "edit" different
      • it seems to me to be much the same
      • Mr_Monkey
        As for parent-child of these relationships, I'd have to think about it a bit
      • CatQuest
        oh I'mdoing that too. looking into what makes sense
      • hmm for each relationship I think i'll make a littel blurb to go int documentation about it too, and al ink to wikipedia.
      • Mr_Monkey
        Awesome !
      • A lot fo them definitely need explanations
      • CatQuest
        ok so two other things: we have a"is the artist for" and i've set this as a sort of parent for al lthe "art" sort of ones
      • but honestly what kidn of artist other thna "illustrated" is there?
      • (there is also things liek comics but i'm getting ot that)
      • Mr_Monkey
        All I can think of are variations of illustrations
      • CatQuest
        so I guess "artist" is very generic, the only issue I had with it is that because we have this term in musicbrainz it's going to be confusing for mb-people coming her and thinking "artist=author" and getting confused because we als ohave "author" as a relationship D
      • :D
      • but for now it's fine
      • Mr_Monkey
        If it appears as something like "X provided art for Y", I think that clarifies it enough
      • CatQuest
        yes
      • anyway. the last thing today is this: we have "author" (the one who "writes") should this be called "writer" ? compare "artists" "perform" in mb
      • so "authors" "write"
      • the relationship (ID 8) actulaly is "write" and "was written by"
      • basically I was thinking the label should be "writer" not "author"
      • your thoguht?
      • +s
      • Mr_Monkey
        What would be the reason for that change?
      • i.e: Is there an issue with the curent wording in your opinion?
      • CatQuest
        no reason but to make it clearer for peopel what we mean with terminology and less-confusion in terms
      • this isn't critical and can be dealt with by the community if possible later
      • if neccesary*
      • Mr_Monkey
        I personally find the current wording clearer. Writer I see more used in terms of occupation or carreer, while I always see "author" for what this relationship describes
      • CatQuest
        ah
      • Mr_Monkey
        "I'm a full time writer, and author of the book XYZ"
      • CatQuest
        then there is ID 31. which I feels is the exact thing as ID 8 and should be depreciated. a n author or riter is stil lthe author and writer of a work evne if it is a comic or graphic novel
      • I've written in my notes "this should be made deprecated as it's basically the same as "author" (ID 8) any and all using this should be found and changed to ID 8"
      • Mr_Monkey
        Hm. A fair point.
      • Would that be a good case for parent-child relationships? Meaning #31 as a child of #8
      • CatQuest
        I've been putting things in "trees" already
      • most "his is writing" ones are already put underneath 8, like "translator" and "previously attributed to"
      • they are both "author" things, they are peopel wwrote
      • Mr_Monkey
        I'm with you so far
      • CatQuest
        worked on, an author has had creative input on a work etc
      • then I have the "artist-y" ones, like illustrator,
      • under stis I've put inker, letterer and a new one "colourist"
      • Mr_Monkey
        Yep
      • CatQuest
        these are all "comic book/graphic novel" things
      • or comics these all makes sense on the work
      • but only for comic books
      • so I see we also have "author-edition" relatinoship called "illustration"
      • i ee the use for both of the work-illustration things. but we need to make some rules or guides abotu when to use each
      • shoud lwe dissuadte the use of "Author illustrated Edition"" on comic book editions?
      • Mr_Monkey
        Sure. illustrated edition ≠ comic book
      • CatQuest
        exactly
      • Mr_Monkey
        I feel that's where #31 would be justified: for comics is the "author" really only the person who provided the story?
      • Maybe it would help to divide authorship in a clearer way for comics
      • CatQuest
        but like. for these other roles we already *have* relationhips. and leftmost is already working on an "author credit" (which i tihkn part of this is)
      • well the "author" relationship says "written by" and that's als owhat we talked about before