#musicbrainz

and iirc, we already are using the release artist field for performer in cases like the Gould you suggest.

You’re suggesting that we invert it, putting Gould on the tracks and Mozart in the RA field.

no no

we've decided that the composer is more important than the performer at the track level

Ok, then let’s clarify. Let me give you 4 examples, you tell me who is RA and who the TAs are for each, ok?

I guess what I'm thinking is that the performers aremore important at the release level because the composer had nothing to do with releasing the CD

sure

1) Ten track CD, all by Mozart, all performed by Gould.

assuming it's not part of a Mozart box set, Gould.

and if it is a box set? (Since you know that problem is huge in classical...)

a) a Mozart box, and b) a Gould box

a) Mozart (or VA) b) Gould

as RA or TA or both, in each case?

composer as track artist always

ok

in 1a) why complicate it? Other split-artist boxes, we list each disc under the different artists (outside of classical)

right now we have single performers as RA only for mixed-composer releases

lol, stick with me, we’ll get to that case. I’m just trying to figure out your logic here

I don't think I like that

breaking up compilations doesn't make sense (at least in classical context)... I'm finding it hard to think of a pop example though

okay... a Masters of the 50's

box set, “10 best albums of the 1960’s”, each cd SA, each listed in box set style, each with RA as the individual artist for the CD

brianfreud: funny you are talking about box sets right now ;)

?

that's a strange case... part of me wants to say "screw that, just add a release event to the real album"

I've got this baby here: http://musik.ciao.de/Die_Kompletten_Opern_Box_S...

lol

I don't know how to enter it into MB

I think a lot of our problems could be solved by having song lists for each artist

correction: entering would be the least problem. Bringing it into CSG and adding ARs is the actual problems

cooperaa: if we ever get box set entities, I could see linking them that way. Right now, I do it like I think you do, with annotation interlinks. But I find your 1a exception wierd

pronik, you may want to play with my new toy...

yeah, that's why I'm talking to you ;)

just be aware the quotes and hyphens it uses are not part of current CSG: http://www.brianfreud.byethost13.com/COBottle.html

does it works cd-wise or track-wise?

pronik: don't forget to add the operas to the composer's CSGStandard page ;)

trackwise

agreed :D

haha I almost did that this morning

but I'm not a very good wiki-formatter

so I left it for someone else

Figured just a list of classical composers, broken by who does or doesn’t get affected by CSG, with links to each composer’s list page

the amount of work this whole stuff involves is just crazy

:P

yipes

cooperaa: Ok. If I can clan clarify your proposal, let me know if you would agree to this, which I will say I can agree to:

brianfreud: should you be coding again, I'd wish an Opera tool. Define characters, singers and "global" information and then add CDs one after another with checkboxes for the characters singing

1) TA is *always* the composer, no matter what.

2) RA for VA is always VA.

1) yes definitely

3) RA for SA is always that SA, even if it’s a box.

ooo

3a) Corallary to 3, annotation interlinks to each release in the box are highly preferred, but only required if the box is VA with SA indiv. CDs

okay, think in the future when we have real "release" pages with disc sections...

we're going to have to set the RA to be VA and the DiscArtist (if we even decide that's significant to the SA)

...messed up my parentheses there

well, in a day when we have BoxSets, RA for the BoxSet = VA, but the individual discs can be SA within that VA box

track artist is actually totally obsolete -- it's either a composer or a performer

but so long as you leave the TAs alone, I’m ok with it. (It’s actually what I thought we were already doing anyhow)

I thought you were trying to make the *TAs* the performers

CRAS says only when the release contains tracks by multiple composers

nooooooooooo

lol, now you understand my reaction

by the way, on your opera script, that’s a lot like what I’d like to eventually see for generic work entries...

jeepers! no wonder I got such an ardent response!

Create a Generic Work listing, then assign generic ARs for it - so you add the release by linking each track to a work, then pull up a “fill in the blanks” AR view, and just fill in the various blank ARs

lol, yeah. If you can live with 1-3+3a, I’m cool with it. The moment anyone wants to reassign away the TAs, /me gets out the veto pen :D

hehe

I think it’s much simpler then, than your note made it seem - only question would be, what constitutes a single performer?

that's why I tried to give some pointers for determining that

obviously a solo performer

possibly we could set conductor if they're on all tracks

Glenn Gould is easy.

Assume that other one I linked to didn’t also have the actual mass tracks mixed in.

brianfreud: how would you like a "musicbrainz network", i.e. several sites maintaining some particular information (classical metadata / lyrics / wikipedia linking / etc) which would sync their data to MB? You could make your script to a complete site this way ;)

Is “Boston Symphony Orchestra & New England Conservatory of Music Chorus pro Musica & Harvard Glee Club & Radcliff Glee Club” a single performer?

I don't think it makes sense to use Orchestra... but maybe Orchestra feat conductor

I wouldn’t want that cooperaa

I don't think I would either

my vote is for conductor

I’d much rather we finally add the ability to link a composer directly to an orchestra

not composer = artist-release AR, but composer = artist-artist AR

but I mean there is a Picard plugin for moving the (Orch feat cond) to release artist from the release title

forgot about that one. /me adds it to the list for the next “List of various issues” CSG email :P

oops, I meant conductor above, not composer

conductor

ya

cooperaa, yes, but do we really need to break up, say, the BSO by conductor?

... oh the irony of finding an audiobook of your course material after you've completed reading 80% of it already

brianfreud: no!

One BSO entry with the various conductors AR’d to the BSO and the releases properly is enough, I think.

haha forget I said anything about that

I want conductor

a single person

Boston Symphony Orchestra (feat. John Williams)

Boston Symphony Orchestra (feat. Steve Smith)

etc

lol

nooooooo

who does not live forever in various incarnations

just one Boston Symphony Orchestra artist :)

yes

hmmm, you mean like the GewandhausOrchester Leipzig?

founded 1743, still going strong today :P

exactly.

off topic: any favorite (preferably simple) mbserver bugs while I'm in coding mood?

luks, do you know if that add AR mbid bug ever got fixed?

luks: are you in perl or python coding mood? ;)

which one?

perl :)

damn :)

where submit dropped all by the first char of the mbid

*by/but

hm, does it have a ticket?

yes

luks: do you actually reserve some code for i18n in the new pymbserver?

drsaunde: i am pleased to report that my local pub does in fact serve maudite.

not sure yet

i18n of the user interface for MB it a *HUUUGE* task

*is

brianfreud: isn't an orchestra a group with some members who are coming and going?

there is too much text everywhere

pronik: yes

pronik, I would have to assume the original 14 members of the GewandhausOrchester Leipzig are not still in the orchestra

:)

you never know, Coppelius started playing sometime in the 19th century and still going strong :D

luks: http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/3246

luks: I've meant only the newly-written parts, i18ising the original mbserver is a huge task

pronik: there is still too much text

each language would need it's own templates

I've shown musicbrainz to some guys in the office last week and had some trouble evangelizing an english-only database

or some more complex solution

moving everything to a separate wiki would be good idea

so it wouldn't work even if someone volunteered to submit translations for it?

luks, I may be totally clueless, but wouldn’t it simply be a matter of extracting all text strings, changing them in the server code to language lookups to a table, then we can start translating that table to all the various languages?

languages are a huge pain in the ass

I know because I work with a newly multilingual application at work

brianfreud: in code itself yes, but there will be page templates which are not that easily translated

so many hardcoded phrases, it's hard to get them all