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CatQuest
ugh jhirley
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reosarevok joined the channel
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9:22 AM
jesus2099
derwin: serf exist since medieval times
2013-05-01 12155, 2013
9:22 AM
jesus2099
it’s like the most people
2013-05-01 12157, 2013
9:22 AM
jesus2099
slaves
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9:22 AM
jesus2099
of owners
2013-05-01 12108, 2013
9:23 AM
jesus2099
land owners nobles etc.
2013-05-01 12146, 2013
9:23 AM
jesus2099
bbq
2013-05-01 12147, 2013
9:23 AM
jesus2099 has left the channel
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derwin
?
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hawke_1
!
2013-05-01 12137, 2013
16:52 PM
hawke_1
2013-05-01 12105, 2013
16:53 PM
hawke_1
I guess it’s somehow related to that being a performance of two works?
2013-05-01 12119, 2013
16:53 PM
hawke_1
(“that” being track 6)
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hawke_1
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19:17 PM
nikki
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19:29 PM
hawke_1
nikki: thanks
2013-05-01 12144, 2013
19:30 PM
bitmap
hawke_1: I don't remember offhand why it would do that but it's definitely a bug
2013-05-01 12100, 2013
19:36 PM
bitmap
2013-05-01 12113, 2013
19:37 PM
hawke_1
kk
2013-05-01 12124, 2013
19:44 PM
hawke_1
nikki: Any idea why this (advanced) search query doesn’t work correctly? tracks:16 classics up to date
2013-05-01 12129, 2013
19:47 PM
nikki
define "correctly"?
2013-05-01 12116, 2013
19:51 PM
hawke_1
(searching for releases there) …correctly meaning 'finds releases with 16 tracks'
2013-05-01 12146, 2013
19:59 PM
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20:22 PM
nikki
hawke_1: tracks:16 AND (classics up to date) if you want only releases with 16 tracks
2013-05-01 12108, 2013
20:23 PM
hawke_1
ah, right…stupid “OR” default
2013-05-01 12109, 2013
20:23 PM
panther2k joined the channel
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20:23 PM
nikki
well, people would complain if it started not finding anything because not all of the words were in the title :/
2013-05-01 12142, 2013
20:24 PM
hawke_1
meh. Finding useless crap is worse than finding nothing
2013-05-01 12104, 2013
20:25 PM
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20:25 PM
nikki
to you maybe
2013-05-01 12100, 2013
20:27 PM
nikki
if I wanted some crappy thing that failed every time I included an extra word, I could use the direct search :P
2013-05-01 12115, 2013
20:27 PM
hawke_1
Every query should just return every result in the db…that way we can say ‘we always give you the result you wanted!’
2013-05-01 12131, 2013
20:27 PM
nikki
we can't, because maybe what you wanted isn't there :P
2013-05-01 12153, 2013
20:27 PM
hawke_1
Yeah, but you’ll never know :-p
2013-05-01 12131, 2013
20:30 PM
nikki
anyway, if too many poor results is the problem, it seems more like we should only return things if the score is high enough
2013-05-01 12144, 2013
20:31 PM
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20:32 PM
hawke_1
I just (still) think defaulting to OR makes no goddamn sense.
2013-05-01 12133, 2013
20:32 PM
hawke_1
Is there any web search engine that does that?
2013-05-01 12100, 2013
20:33 PM
hawke_1
No, because it’s fucking stupid.
2013-05-01 12132, 2013
20:33 PM
derwin
I tend to agree, but maybe ther'es something I'm missing
2013-05-01 12136, 2013
20:33 PM
nikki
tbh google often seems to do that
2013-05-01 12137, 2013
20:33 PM
derwin
about why mb search should be different
2013-05-01 12150, 2013
20:33 PM
nikki
but google works in weird ways and searches for things I definitely didn't search for
2013-05-01 12158, 2013
20:33 PM
hawke_1
nikki: No, Google does weird things with word substitutions.
2013-05-01 12114, 2013
20:35 PM
hawke_1
It’s OK to say “there are no releases with 16 tracks and a name like 'classics up to date'”
2013-05-01 12132, 2013
20:35 PM
nikki
anyway, if you think you can come up with something better that won't make people bitch about it not finding things it should, it's open source :P
2013-05-01 12104, 2013
20:36 PM
hawke_1
I did, ijabz told me I was wrong. :-)
2013-05-01 12153, 2013
20:36 PM
hawke_1
'default to AND, and fuzzy-search every word' is pretty much what is needed IMO.
2013-05-01 12119, 2013
20:37 PM
hawke_1
“Your search - aowejfoiawjefoiawefjweaoif - did not match any documents.” — damnit Google, you didn’t find what I was looking for!
2013-05-01 12136, 2013
20:37 PM
reosarevok
Maybe not words though
2013-05-01 12143, 2013
20:38 PM
drsaunde joined the channel
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20:40 PM
hawke_1
2013-05-01 12129, 2013
20:40 PM
kepstin_ notes that his random non-mb-power-user friend finds the default 'or' search really confusing.
2013-05-01 12130, 2013
20:40 PM
hawke_1
2013-05-01 12104, 2013
20:41 PM
hawke_1
because an 'advanced' search is a completely different beast, for some strange reason.
2013-05-01 12122, 2013
20:41 PM
hawke_1
Whatever, I’ve been over this before.
2013-05-01 12138, 2013
20:41 PM
nikki
the default one does a lot more fuzzy matching, the advanced one makes you do your own fuzzy matching
2013-05-01 12100, 2013
20:42 PM
derwin
yeah, I don't know what meaning OR tracks:16 would have
2013-05-01 12113, 2013
20:42 PM
derwin
give me all releases named [x] or.. any release with 16 tracks?
2013-05-01 12116, 2013
20:42 PM
derwin
meaningless
2013-05-01 12122, 2013
20:42 PM
hawke_1
derwin: that’s exactly what it means
2013-05-01 12130, 2013
20:42 PM
derwin
yes, but what meaning could that possibly have?
2013-05-01 12133, 2013
20:42 PM
hawke_1
and that’s exactly what you get.
2013-05-01 12141, 2013
20:42 PM
nikki
derwin: obviously it depends what you're looking for :P
2013-05-01 12150, 2013
20:42 PM
hawke_1
It means 'give me a bunch of crap I don’t want'
2013-05-01 12152, 2013
20:42 PM
derwin
nikki: who is ever looking for all releases with 16 tracks? heh
2013-05-01 12107, 2013
20:43 PM
hawke_1
because hey, the result you wanted is in there somewhere if we have it!
2013-05-01 12142, 2013
20:43 PM
reosarevok
Yeah, it really feels like if you give it advanced queries you want an AND
2013-05-01 12111, 2013
20:44 PM
hawke_1
reosarevok: IMO you want an AND anyway
2013-05-01 12116, 2013
20:44 PM
nikki
hawke_1: like I said, if too many results is the problem, that can be solved without using AND :P
2013-05-01 12159, 2013
20:44 PM
hawke_1
nikki: It’s not just too many results, it’s irrelevant results.
2013-05-01 12111, 2013
20:45 PM
reosarevok
nikki: tracks:16 doesn't have any fuzziness to it though
2013-05-01 12121, 2013
20:45 PM
nikki
they're irrelevant because they're not good enough matches and should have a low score
2013-05-01 12139, 2013
20:45 PM
hawke_1
nikki: then the scoring system is terrible.
2013-05-01 12146, 2013
20:45 PM
nikki
reosarevok: I didn't say it wouldn't make sense to make tracks: use AND
2013-05-01 12114, 2013
20:46 PM
hawke_1
2013-05-01 12122, 2013
20:46 PM
nikki
reosarevok: I'm just arguing that ANDing everything instead of ORing everything is not necessarily the right solution to reduce the number of results
2013-05-01 12139, 2013
20:46 PM
hawke_1
2013-05-01 12140, 2013
20:46 PM
reosarevok
nikki: agreed for words
2013-05-01 12155, 2013
20:46 PM
hawke_1
2013-05-01 12142, 2013
20:49 PM
nikki
hawke_1: now imagine something where you have "Classics: Up to Date" and mb has "Up to Date" because "Classics" is some series name or something like that that we didn't put in the title
2013-05-01 12110, 2013
20:52 PM
hawke_1
nikki: then you’ll never find it because who knows where in the 1442 pages of results it wills how up?
2013-05-01 12128, 2013
20:52 PM
nikki
ime near the top.
2013-05-01 12129, 2013
20:53 PM
hawke_1
aside from that, anyone who’s ever used a search engine can probably deal with it.
2013-05-01 12134, 2013
20:53 PM
nikki
I can't think of the last time (other than searching for tracks where we had more than one page of identically named ones) that I had to go to the second page to find what I wanted
2013-05-01 12128, 2013
20:54 PM
hawke_1
nikki: that relies on you knowing that we actually have what you want.
2013-05-01 12159, 2013
20:54 PM
drsaunde
hooray hooray hooray for May!!!!!!!
2013-05-01 12121, 2013
20:55 PM
drsaunde has had one day off work in the last 30
2013-05-01 12126, 2013
20:55 PM
nikki
hawke_1: how so? if we don't have what we want, I'm not going to find it on any of the later pages either :P
2013-05-01 12135, 2013
20:55 PM
nikki
err
2013-05-01 12137, 2013
20:55 PM
nikki
what I want, I mean
2013-05-01 12142, 2013
20:55 PM
hawke_1
How do you know?
2013-05-01 12109, 2013
20:56 PM
hawke_1
Do you page through every result before concluding that we don’t have it?
2013-05-01 12129, 2013
20:56 PM
hawke_1
Or do you *always* find what you want in the first page?
2013-05-01 12130, 2013
20:57 PM
nikki
no, because I know that by the time I get into the results with low scores, they're just matches on things like "the" and are such a poor match that if what I wanted was there, it would be higher up :P
2013-05-01 12134, 2013
21:00 PM
hawke_1 notes that on page 5016 it just says “fuckit” and stops giving a score.
2013-05-01 12123, 2013
21:02 PM
CatQuest
reosarevok>
