snoozebrainz: ^ can you describe what changes you were trying to do? there's a bug somewhere there
2015-10-23 29639, 2015
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2015-10-23 29607, 2015
snoozebrainz
I entered an album yesterday based on discogs data, when I went over it today I realized that data was wrong (does not match any other information I can find on ther internet and the tracklist is broken)
2015-10-23 29612, 2015
snoozebrainz
so I used the information from allmusic instead and added two new dics to the release and removed the old two dics
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bitmap
thanks, I'll see if I can find the bug
2015-10-23 29631, 2015
snoozebrainz
From what I can tell from the interface, it manage to do the first steps (rename artist credits on the album) and it was able to enter the edits for the release group and enter the remove mediums edit but was not able to do the reorder thingy, but the "edit release group" and "remove medium" wasn't removed from the interface so I caused some duplicate edits
2015-10-23 29653, 2015
snoozebrainz
When I entered the edits separatly I was able to get them in
2015-10-23 29613, 2015
snoozebrainz
I still have the window open that got the bad gateway 502 if I can do anything there to help
John Coltrane - The John Coltrane Quartet Plays, John Coltrane Quartet - Plays, John Coltrane Quartet - John Coltrane Quartet Plays
2015-10-23 29633, 2015
snoozebrainz
on the side of the cover it says: "John Coltrane" "The John Coltrane Quartet Plays" "IMP12142"
2015-10-23 29659, 2015
snoozebrainz
so I guess it would be the first one, but would like to check since it seems that album is listed all over
2015-10-23 29607, 2015
hawke1
snoozebrainz: I would say all three of those should be merged into "The John Coltrane Quartet Plays"
2015-10-23 29629, 2015
hawke1
also, I think discogs title is wrong, it should be "The John Coltrane Quartet Plays" not "The John Coltrane Quartet Plays John Coltrane"
2015-10-23 29603, 2015
snoozebrainz
so if I add the new album to John Coltrane - The John Coltrane Quartet Plays and merg the other two release groups into that release groups it should be fine?
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snoozebrainz
and should I set the artist of the album and the songs to John Coltrane or John Coltrane Quartet?
2015-10-23 29652, 2015
snoozebrainz
the releases in John Coltrane - The John Coltrane Quartet Plays has John Coltrane Quartet as the artist so not sure which one I should use :)
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CallerNo6
I can see how somebody would get confused, thinking it's like "Zappa Plays Zappa". I guess.
2015-10-23 29606, 2015
hawke1
snoozebrainz: hard to say which artist to use. Either seems acceptable.
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hawke1
snoozebrainz: spine and medium suggest "john coltrane"
2015-10-23 29619, 2015
snoozebrainz
the other one in the group used "The John Coltrane Quartet" so I went with that one
2015-10-23 29638, 2015
snoozebrainz
it kind of makes sense since the credited persons on the release are the members of the quartet
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snoozebrainz
maybe the songs should be credited to to the quartet and the album to coltrane
2015-10-23 29607, 2015
snoozebrainz
created an edit to merge the different release groups, but won't start chaning artist credits on them since I know to little about what should be the correct credits :)
hawke1: everything is important. this is why I fail :-)
2015-10-23 29611, 2015
CallerNo6
but yeah, it always comes back to "what's a label?"
2015-10-23 29638, 2015
hawke1
I should so seriously not have to know the details of the history of occasions on which label X jerked off label Y and thus is allowed to use its logo, in order to put a label on a release.
2015-10-23 29655, 2015
reosarevok
The problem with that one is that we need decent community input on that, and I'm not very sure how to get it
2015-10-23 29615, 2015
reosarevok
I mean, from multiple users, not the same five people who always argue about it and whose opinions I know by heart by now :p
2015-10-23 29623, 2015
hawke1
reosarevok: lol
2015-10-23 29651, 2015
hawke1
reosarevok: I think the problem is that those 5 users are the only ones who care one way or the other.
2015-10-23 29655, 2015
CallerNo6
I have no idea what reosarevok is talking about.
2015-10-23 29604, 2015
reosarevok
Not because those opinions aren't valid or anything, but because "label" is a very central part of our releases and it would be very good to know what people expect to see there
2015-10-23 29627, 2015
reosarevok
Maybe most people don't care at all, dunno
2015-10-23 29634, 2015
reosarevok
But I'd like to know even that :D
2015-10-23 29601, 2015
hawke1
Judging by the way in which labels are arbitrarily slapped on releases, I think most people don't know, don't care, and don't care to know.
2015-10-23 29651, 2015
CallerNo6
that's a good starting point. what do people want to know? it'd be pretty easy to come up with a list that answers that.
2015-10-23 29654, 2015
kepstin-laptop
my personal preference for label is that as few as possible should be on any release in mbz, and the one(s) that are there should be the primary label(s) used on customer-visible packaging/branding
2015-10-23 29623, 2015
kepstin-laptop
where "primary" is unfortunately hard to define
2015-10-23 29652, 2015
reosarevok
I mean, by how iTunes for example doesn't even bother to mention the label, maybe people just really don't care nowadays :p
2015-10-23 29610, 2015
reosarevok
I guess we shouldn't tell that to any labels who want to pay us, though :D
2015-10-23 29627, 2015
CallerNo6
if a label is a logo on the cover, then most digital releases don't /have/ labels (do they?)
2015-10-23 29629, 2015
hawke1
kepstin-laptop: IMO labels should be available as a method to distinguish releases and identify the ones that you have in hand.
2015-10-23 29623, 2015
hawke1
kepstin-laptop: If I see logo XYZ on my physical copy and someone has decided that that label is not the "primary" one for whatever reason, resulting in not being able to find the proper release on MB...that's a problem.
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CallerNo6
hawke1: that's why I think we're approaching the problem from the wrong angle.
2015-10-23 29613, 2015
CallerNo6
you (and others, I'm sure) want to know what branding appears on a release. that's a totally valid thing to want to know. does it matter whether we call that the "release label"? not so much IMO.
2015-10-23 29655, 2015
kepstin-laptop
(excluding digital releases, of course) very little of the stuff I own has any sort of confusing "multiple branding"
2015-10-23 29603, 2015
kepstin-laptop
helps that in the canadian/us market, at least for cds, it's very common to use completely separate printings and pressings for the two countries, so they can put different labels on each as needed.
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hawke1
CallerNo6: yeah, I would have no objection if people wanted to take one of the several logos and mark it as "the primary" label. That's just fine by me.
2015-10-23 29653, 2015
hawke1
CallerNo6: It's when it comes down to the ridiculous "THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE" [cue highlander theme] that it bothers me.
2015-10-23 29651, 2015
hawke1
Heck, could even pretend to mark one as primary now by making the label order significant (though it would be a pain in the ass to actually reorder labels, it would kinda work)
2015-10-23 29658, 2015
CallerNo6
hawke1: well, right. I think the problem is that we're trying to shoehorn information into these legacy fields.
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hawke1
CallerNo6: Oh?
2015-10-23 29604, 2015
hawke1
CallerNo6: I don't think they're legacy fields, and I don't know in what we we'd be trying to shoehorn it in...
2015-10-23 29624, 2015
hawke1
CallerNo6: I feel like some people have decided there can only be one label and are trying to enforce it on everything.
2015-10-23 29630, 2015
blup
[20:17] <hawke1> Judging by the way in which labels are arbitrarily slapped on releases, I think most people don't know, don't care, and don't care to know.
2015-10-23 29630, 2015
blup
^^this
2015-10-23 29642, 2015
blup
basicallybasically :P
2015-10-23 29645, 2015
blup
erh
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reosarevok
Well, I feel "label" is as much a legacy field as "artist"
2015-10-23 29615, 2015
reosarevok
(so, not fully, but kinda)
2015-10-23 29628, 2015
kuno
reosarevok: I mostly care about reducing the pointless arguments about it, so even if the guideline is completely bonkers, as long as it clear and easy to follow, I'd be happy :)
2015-10-23 29630, 2015
reosarevok
It's "something or other label-ish that really should be more specific"
2015-10-23 29631, 2015
hawke1
reosarevok: What would be the "current" field replacing it?
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reosarevok
A set of relationships, which we mostly already have, plus an "imprint" one I guess
2015-10-23 29600, 2015
reosarevok
And better UI
2015-10-23 29614, 2015
hawke1
reosarevok: Except that would just transfer the problem to the "imprint" relationship.
2015-10-23 29631, 2015
hawke1
reosarevok: Someone, or some people, would just decide "there is only one imprint allowed" and we're back where we are now.
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blup
[20:46] <hawke1> CallerNo6: I feel like some people have decided there can only be one label and are trying to enforce it on everything.
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blup
yea, that bothers me too, why can't we like.. have al lthe things?
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reosarevok
Would it? You could also have a generic "label" relationship above all others, I guess
2015-10-23 29619, 2015
reosarevok
Same as we have "performer" above more specific performance types
2015-10-23 29630, 2015
reosarevok
If you're not sure what a label is on the release, just use that
2015-10-23 29649, 2015
CallerNo6
blup: excactly. there's no reason why we can't have all the things.
2015-10-23 29651, 2015
hawke1
reosarevok: But when you can see that there are 3 logos on the release...
2015-10-23 29652, 2015
blup
yea. I mean, that's basiclaly how I *use* label
2015-10-23 29610, 2015
hawke1
reosarevok: and they are all valid "labels" in that they have label entities in the database.
2015-10-23 29614, 2015
reosarevok
hawke1: dunno. a lot of releases I see include the distributor's logo and I wouldn't call the imprint still
2015-10-23 29622, 2015
blup
if there is the logo, use thingy
2015-10-23 29622, 2015
blup
if there is no logo, go with.. uhh wahts on the spine
2015-10-23 29627, 2015
blup
if thereisn't.. i guess soem rights thing
2015-10-23 29628, 2015
blup
y
2015-10-23 29629, 2015
reosarevok
Of course there are also cases where there *are* multiple valid imprint logos
reosarevok: To me that is "EMI" and a localized variant of "His Master's Voice"
2015-10-23 29638, 2015
blup
I've had people take a label i created, add lots of other crap to it, altered it ad 4 years later somone went along and removed the label i added from the original release *I* added as "not being the right label"
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reosarevok
Hmm
2015-10-23 29651, 2015
hawke1
There's an objection to that because the company EMI happens to have owned the imprint HMV at the time.
2015-10-23 29654, 2015
blup
(different people doing all that)
2015-10-23 29606, 2015
reosarevok
To me that's "EMI Die Simme seines Herm" or something to that point, if anything
