#musicbrainz

tja

Thats what you get for living in a shit city :P

No rain here, but skies and 17-18c

get bent super

ಠ_ಠ

wait, so you actually have several skies? good for oyu?

also i don't live in a shit city

Oslo is like, the least shit city

Ofc

I don't see how your link makes any more sense? skies?. you mean like plural of ski? not plural sky?

that makes.. even less sence with that temp intervall

gnerally one says "clear skies" in the plural 3rd person or wahtever

or "dark skies" or "blue skies"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Reading is hard

i know what "sky" menas

no it's not

i can't be arsed to feed you right now

Obviously :p But lets end this here. This is for musicbrainz

dosoe: In classical music, you will generally have the arrangements of a work published on their own and a performance will be some specific arranger's arrangement of a piece. In folk music you will usually have a base melody/tune and any harmonies, breaks, dynamic changes etc. (ie., arrangement of the tune) are added by whomever performs it, but you

generally say that two bands performed the same trad. tune/Work. The same for pop/rock/contemporary mainstream music, if I do a g+voc cover in a soft pop singer/songwriter style of a heavy metal full-rock band, I would generally be considered doing (a cover of) the same Work, even though the arrangement is notably different. In the latter two cases, you

would put the arranger on the Recording, but in the classical case, you would make a Work for the specific arrangement.

hi, Freso

I don't think it'd make sense to have different work/recording_arranger tags, but it probably wouldn't hurt either (Just In Case™).

(But I would probably just combine the two for the "Arranger" audio file tag.)

it's probably better for Clarity's Sake :D

SuperSeriousCat: could you try to not act like a dick? Thanks!

Oh, I just glossed over all that. >_> But yes, what reosarevok said.

Cant resist when it is served on a silver plate :p Was originally done after the first remark

SuperSeriousCat: Try harder to resist.

OK, I think I get the difference. It's not substantially more work to make two tags, it's just that completeness is the ennemy of simplicity here.

that might be one of metabrainz' mantra :D

dosoe: I think for all practical purposes, they're ultimately the same for the end user: whomever arranged the piece of music they're listening to.

dosoe: fwiw I'd go with one tag

dosoe: Note that for completeness, what we *should* do is make a new work for every pop/folk arrangement as well and have all arrangers on the Work level, but for simplicity we're not. ;)

reosarevok: generally the ones where arranger on work is appropriate and the ones with arranger on recording is appropriate d o not overlap, much?

OK thanks. The classical style guide has spoken. Does the supreme leader have an opinion about the lyricist/librettist distinction?

I always thought that the 'catch-all for unknown arrangements' was there for this kind of cases

for folk and jazz that would be ridiculous because you'd end with a work <-> recording n:n thing since every recording is a rearangement-ish

dosoe: However, since classicial music has a different tradition with regards to several "groups" performing the same arrangement, it makes more sense to make a new Work for these, so we can be sure that we're saying "these people are actually really playing the same arrangement, and not just the same Work that happens to have been arranged by the same

person".

yes

I was not the a dick btw besides the first remark. The rest was just links proving his snide comments wrong

Makes sense. I just have no idea about non-classical music, if I do modern music it's Messiaen or Nielsen

as opposed to in folk and jazz etch wher it's rare for other s to play differnt person arrangement of tings

SuperSeriousCat: "I was not the a dick … besides the first remark" - so you were a dick. Don't be.

Fair enough :p

dosoe: it gets a bit hairy for things like "string quarted arranged" type ones, or where classical works have been "covered" by popular acts

like the many "covers" of Hall of tthe Mountian King by e.g. metla bands nad rockbands

also for the record, my comment about skies where not meant to be snide, I was genuinely confused.

I appologise

I found an arrangement of a chopin prelude by some jazzman, I guess this also is one.

oh yea, that happens too :D

it's all a confusing mess :D and it's music, and I love it

I'm also confused about the distinction between librettist and lyricist: As I get it <hibiscuskazeneko> the librettist is the lyricist of bigger works (with more than one part)?

generally I'd say moder music -> lyricist but

modern*

Schubert Lieder?

reosarevok: you the classicla guru

the supreme leader

:D

:D

dosoe: lyricist https://musicbrainz.org/relationship/3e48faba-e...

I usually see it for opera or oratorios (->musical theatre) but I wonder how much sense this distinction makes, if for the sake of clarity we could merge the two in beets

We used to have translator as an attribute of both lyricist and librettist

We turned both into just "translator" and nobody seems to have complained

reosarevok: So the librettist is appropriate when it is about theatre? What about oratorios (Creation, Passions...)?

"Librettist is to be used for the author(s) of the words of an opera or other musical stage work, or an oratorio, including dialogue from musicals."

translator seems weird

Freso, dosoe, reosarevok: So “arranger” seems to be the same for works and recordings. Arranger are at work level when it is a noticeable version of a popular work, otherwise it is at recording level, right?

Now, cantatas are a bit weird :p

Pretty much, arranger is at work level when we consider an arrangement worth of a work

what is a cantata? :x

Which is rarely, for classical, and basically never, for popular

(and Freso might know about folk :p )

and jazz

It would be nice to have meta relationship types to link similar relationship types at different levels together.

That's how I get it.

relationship relationships!

yvanzo: it'd be great to have a lot of relationship stuff. I still reallllly like the roles idea

(wtf "Atlassian JIRA is starting up")

'the roles idea'?

Looking for a ticket if there is one, but Jira is starting up, whatever that means

ugh, no more issues withjira :(

yea, what is the roles idea

what is jira?

bugtracker

Meh can't find it

Anyway

The idea was that rather than defined as RDF "X action Y" the relationships would be defined more specifically as roles with the appropriate number of entities

So siblings would be "x, y, z are siblings", rather than "x has sibling y", "x has sibling z", "y has sibling z"

(where the number can be 2-n)

(it's some of the stuff nikki used to propose)

ooh I like that idea!

I wonder by the way if there is a relationship for family relations, so far there is only brother, father and son. Maybe something for more distant relations could make sense

And ideally a whole performance could be linked together like that, so "x performed y in place z at time a and b recorded it"

dosoe: we considered a more general "relative" but some people didn't really like it

One thing to keep in mind is that we do already allow adding a non-musical intermediate person

I do miss an "is uncle/aunt" one when information about the missing link (eg the sitster/brother who is parent) is very, very hard to find

So you can do X (musician) is father of Y (random dude) is father of Z (musician)

yea

But yeah, for that you need to know enough about Y to add them I guess

it's just that sometimes random dude is impossibleot ifnd info about :/

Any opinion about merging librettist and lyricist tags on beets?

Not really. I guess you'd want to ask musical people

dosoe: I added my mother a while back solely for being able to link myself to my uncle in MB.

Because I think that's the most common case where both are present and mean different things

(As an example of "we do already allow adding a non-musical intermediate person")

If you want to make a more presistent input, I'm trying to summarize the discussion on https://github.com/beetbox/beets/pull/2333#issu...

Freso: your momma is in MusicBrainz! (use when applicable)

:D dosoe: it's Freso, but everyone gets it wrong anyway :)

Freso: you should just accept it and change it really :p Descriptivist usernames

But then I'd have to change my legal name too.

Nah

Just be Fre S. "CoolDude" O

I wonder if there are examples of people changing their names to fit their pseudos

dosoe: There are.

Mary...

Dammit.

This might be a dumb question, but on a Release is the language setting referring to the language on the packaging or is it the language of the lyrics sung (if any)?

a)

The lyrics are the work language(s)

dosoe: Moya Brennan; https://musicbrainz.org/artist/51823891-6035-4d...

Now that makes sense to me. Thanks, reosarevok,

dosoe: Notice how she performed under basically her real name until 2002 where she changed her performance name. In 2009 she then changed her legal name to match her performance one.

(And as a result is likely one of the artists in MusicBrainz that has had the most merges...)

21 to be exact

jeez

That's like Tchaikovsky levels

woa

INST-363: create a generic, plural "keyboards" credit

+1 from me.

(FWIW.)

also INST.330 is "blocked" by the ability for instrument credits to act like regular ones: MBS-9327

MBS-9327: permit instrument credits to work like other credits https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/MBS-9327