#musicbrainz

They still want to mandate that all the release entries use hyphens when the releases do not.

warp: well, hyphens were added to those CDs even though they don't have it (to standardise)

It's not minor.

we standardise lots of things, change them from how they appear on the cover.

Any decent catno search should ignore hyphens anyway, so if ours doesn't that should change

Mostly for grammatical purposes

if the correct catalog number has hyphens (and I don’t know those should have), I think we should fix these errors

Many of the changes we normally do I agree with since it's proper English grammar

HibiscusKazeneko: consistency between releases is one of the main goals (because that has historically one of the major issues with musicbrainz' predecessors)

such consistency is impossible

Every label handles catno's diffrerently

so? that doesn't neccesarily mean we should as well.

It's a data loss

sure, so are all the other standardizations we do in musicbrainz.

There'll always be tension between normalization-people and as-on-cover-people.

See? What'd I tell you? You're ganging up on me!

HibiscusKazeneko: we currently have no guideline which says we should standardize, so any edit which makes it closer to the cover is correct.

Yindesu and co. keep voting all of mine down

until there is a guideline, they're wrong.

And they'll still tarnish my reputation

(but I would support a guideline standardizing japanese post-1989 catalog numbers in musicbrainz)

Then I'd have no choice but to pack up and leave.

how is your reputation tarnished by other people's votes?

It causes people to take me less seriously.

We're not on the same team if we're grandstanding against each other.

we all want accurate, useful data.

And many of you are trying to strip away that accuracy!

that we sometimes have disagreements on what that means exactly doesn't mean we're not on the same team :)

There's always a tradeoff between usefulness and accuracy, but I'm not sure I agree putting hyphens in all catnos improves usefulness

It really doesn't.

it is easy for a data consumer to do in post-processing if they want, so it seems mostly an aesthetic for MB editors.

Unless there's some sort of algorithm that requires them, they're not worth anything.

I hardly see them in any Western releases.

Is it just a matter of changing whitespace to hyphens? Or is there more to it?

CallerNo6: no, that's it.

Sometimes there's no space at all.

I dug up Ami Suzuki's "Infinity Eighteen Vol.1" and it doesn't use a space between the letter portion and the number portion

HibiscusKazeneko: one of the things I dislike about how we store catalog numbers is that we cannot associate them with discs.

I'd like to change that too. I often see catalog numbers like AAAA-0001~2

which for those who don't know is an indicator of several discs

I normally split them into AAAA-0001 and AAAA-0002, but many editors skip that step

I don’t like to see those catalog numbers on releases

Me neither

you also see /A and /B suffixes for discs sometimes.

SultS: which catalog numbers?

That means there's more than one disc and the suffix is added to the catalog number of the second disc.

warp: the ones that only apply to one medium, one the whole release

SultS: the first one is typically used as the catalog number of the whole release.

They're often listed that way on shopping sites

whole release one is OK

It might trip some people up (it used to do so to me)

my example of a lack of space in a catno

(I just realized I haven't uploaded the scans I made of that release yet)

oh, perhaps I imagined the /A part. seems /B is disc 2, and disc 1 doesn't get a suffix. (at least on the release I just checked now :)

I'd have to see the release to determine. Can you link me to one with an /A suffix? I know I've seen /Bs before.

HibiscusKazeneko: http://musicbrainz.org/release/082f12c3-a46d-49...

HibiscusKazeneko: no, I probably remembered the /A part wrong.

I see

Checking to see if there's a second disc

Lo and behold, there is

The individual discs' catno

damn, finger slipped

The catalog numbers for each discs are printed on the disc labels

yep, and retailers seem to use that first catalog number without '/B' as the catalog number for the release as a whole (e.g. http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=AV... )

HibiscusKazeneko: that cover art is a nice example of the catalog number being printed with and without hyphen.

so it seems avex doesn't care too much either way :)

Let me see...

Are you talking about the release you linked to or mine>

the spine has letter part and number part on seperate lines.

the one I linked.

oh

It looks like it's hyphenated in all places to me

except where you typically look for the catalog number, the spine (on the obi).

I checked my copy of http://musicbrainz.org/release/1d7264a0-65a4-4d... to be sure

Hyphens typically aren't used on obis IME

I have a bunch of Toshiba EMI/EMI Music Japan/Universal Japan releases that attest to this

sure, but that is an indication that the hyphen can be omitted or inserted depending on how the catalog number is used. so in itself it is not important data we must have in musicbrainz.

More so that it doesn't look nice when you stack the halves on top of each other.

right, if not looking nice is a reason for labels to leave the hyphen off. I think that is a also valid reason for us to include it.

If it's included elsewhere on the packaging, you mean?

To me, warp's point suggests that (at least some) labels don't see the hyphen as anything but a graphic design element.

Sounds a bit like that, yes.

It's further validated when you consider that some labels use/used unusual characters in catno's (e.g. Epic/Sony before mid-1989)

They used a dot for the first separation, followed by a hyphen

OT: is this an intentional thing that clicking anywhere but the cover art frame no longer closes it?

AFAIK there's a fix in review

I have no idea. I noticed that too.

ah, good to know… I like that it closes it

used to, that is

As did I

Using a touchpad makes me miss the mark when clicking sometimes

man do I love that we nolonger have the broken thicketbox or whatever it was called though. the having to click the x is a fine tradeoff imho, and if there is a fix to so that clcikig nanywhere removes it - well, all the better

slautations!

salutations !

yo

and with that

good night

Hello people

oyasumi!

it's what, 8:30 there?

how much time does it take to load the datadump into a DB?

it's been running for 3 hours

and it seems to be stuck in track

how big a dump is it?

warp: post-processing is hard when it's ambiguous :/

12M rows in track

select count(*) from track is 0

but it's using more and more disk

I guess it's indexing everything before or something, I have no idea

I know absolutely nothing about this so you might have to ask over at #musicbrainz-devel

Wixy: it taking several hours i normal

*is

I think I'm experiencing a caffeine crash

nikki: example?

warp: abcd-1000-1 could be a range or a disc sub-number thingy. abc1-2 could be prefix abc1, suffix 2 or prefix abc, suffix 1, range 2 or prefix abc, suffix 1, disc sub-number thingy 2

Then there's the thing where BIS makes a 5xCD and calls it "BIS-CD-801/3" or something

(apparently because it's priced the same as 3 1xCDs

)

That's why it's helpful to have scans of all the packaging

the catalog numbers for the individual discs could be printed somewhere

nikki: I would expect anything matching /[A-Z]{4,5} ?[0-9]{4,5}/ to be safe to add a hyphen to.

(well, start with ^)

also unless we change the way the style process works, there'll never be a guideline, so it seems unfair to me to say people should make a guideline if they want that

(having to make guidelines for everything that people think shouldn't follow the cover exactly would also result in a stupid amount of guidelines)

Basic grammar is one thing, but this is a whole 'mother story

'mother (damn AutoCorrect)

gah

'nother

I hate this feature

old joke. a Freudian slip is when you say one thing when you meant a mother.

can't you turn it off?

I might be able to

let me check

I can't find an option to toggle it off in Preferences

(I'm using Colloquy)

is it actually something in colloquy or in osx in general?

It's part of Colloquy (a Mac-only IRC client)

I don't have any other application (besides iMessage) that does this

huh strange. I guess they must've started developing it again since I last used it

I had to update it a while back