#musicbrainz

ty, who did it? because https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/MusicBrainz_Picard... doesn't reflect all of them

apparently you can't read that ufid tag in foobar

hawke: I think we're disagreeing on "canonical".

_5moufl: I think ijabz did that

CallerNo6: Could be.

It seems like that would make classical even more complicated.

(hypothetically... in practice, most works I'm concerned with are 'untitled' anyway)

CallerNo6: Just for a hard example, http://beta.musicbrainz.org/edit/29615079 — If someone told me that “Nosutarujia” was the canonical name of that song as opposed to “Nostalgia” (regardless of script), I would say they were crazy.

I would say that "ノスタルジア" is the canonical name of that recording, and both "Nosutarujia" and "Nostalgia" are transformations of that name.

(whether or not the cue number M-27 should be in there or not is a completely different thing, of course)

Yeah, I’m not too worried about the cue number for purpose of this discussion.

kepstin-laptop: And I would say “Nostalgia” is the canonical name, and the other two are the transformations.

er,

kepstin-laptop : the recording id tag seems to be written somewhere i can't access, but the track id doesn't even appear in picard

_5moufl: is your picard new enough?

1.2

(Because “Nostalgia” is actually a word, whereas “ノスタルジア” AFAIK is not)

But it's a name.

my japanese dictionary disagrees with you, actually. :)

Note I would also be OK with correcting an English title which was written as “smorgasbord” into “smörgåsbord”

but that's completely changing the language of the title

smorgasbord is not an English word.

english usage and english dictionaries disagree with you.

kepstin-laptop https://github.com/musicbrainz/picard/commit/04... is probably anterior to 1.2

wow, 1.2 is that long ago?

not sure

we really need a new picard release, anyways :/

1.2 -> 31 march 2013

so yes

kepstin-laptop: smorgasbord is a Swedish word used by English speakers.

hawke: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/en... https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/smorgasbord http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/smorg...

all the dictionaries agree that smorgasbord is an english word derived from the swedish smörgåsbord

Just as much as балала́йка is an English word, i.e. not at all.

http://build.oxygene.sk/job/package-picard-win-... might try this

does it use the same configuration as 1.2 ?

_5moufl: it'll upgrade the config. I suggest not switching back and forth between them

(or back up your old config first)

hard to say when a borrowed word crosses the line into being English

kepstin-laptop : i was looking for the config, not sure where it's stored actually :/

hawke: also relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gairaigo

CallerNo6: I don’t think transliterating it and stripping the diacritics makes it English.

... but if it didn't happen, a lot of words would not be English

No, I agree, that isn't enough to make it English.

But it's a necessary part of bringing a new word into the fold.

meh. is the picard config stored in the registry?

_5moufl: oh in windows? maybe :/

I think we wanted to change that at some point

in linux, it's a nice standalone text file.

http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=724 haha 2007 :'

anyway, i can export the registry keys

it will have to do

CallerNo6: I think it requires a change in meaning or a change in spelling (of course, whether a transliteration counts as “change in spelling” I’m not sure.

is "kindergarten" an English word?

I would say not.

... you'd be wrong. I suspect many of the english users don't even know that it came from german any more...

kepstin-laptop: I would not be wrong. It’s a German word used in English.

It doesn’t matter if the users know the origin.

it's an english word that originally came from german

quite a big distinction :)

english has a lot of words in it that were originall french, german, etc., often modified significantly, sometimes not as much...

It *might* be an English word, if a kindergarten in an English-speaking country was a completely different thing than a kindergarten in Germany.

Then is it correct to say that "there's no word in English for 'a school or class for young children between the ages of four and six years'? (other than "Hell", of course)

"

I would say that “English uses the German word for [etc]”

Now, “Pretzel” is an English word; the German is “Brezel”

(even though one derives from the other)

kepstin-laptop : as expected, I get the track id field (as well as some other new fields) with the latest picard build :)

I'd have waited two days before retagging my library if I knew this :'

man, you get some really fun things when you start roundtripping between languages. the english word 'cosplay' comes from the japanese 'コスプレ' which was made by taking the first two kana from each word of the japanese transliteration of the english words 'costume' and 'play' :)

(taking the first two kana from each of two words is a pretty common way of doing abbreviations in japanese)

So…cosplay is a Japanese word. Seems reasonable to me.

no, コスプレ is a japanese word

it doesn't even directly transliterate to 'cosplay'

See my comment above, ‘whether a transliteration counts as “change in spelling” I’m not sure.’

portmanteau is French, so obviously cosplay is a french word

wait. French isn't a French word.

heh

:o

it's not like english has any formal gatekeepers. something pretty much becomes an english word by getting somewhat broad usage by english speakers.

kepstin-laptop: I don’t see any useful definition of an “English word” then.

and then dictionaries go "huh, this word is used a lot in english, better add it to the english dictionary"

Unless all words are English word that just haven’t been adopted yet.

well, those ones aren't english... yet :)

amusingly, "smorgasbords" is the english plural of "smorgasbord", but the swedish plural is formed completely differently.

english borrow a lot of words from other languages

and also, how old does something have to be before it's enlish?

i dunno, borrow isn't quite right; we don't normally give them back ;)

you have ombudsman? is that english?

hehe I'm norwegianing- it's called "låneord" in norwegian

what about monday, thusday, friday?

and words derived of words that where "lent"?

ok ,so words like "sushi" and "taco" aren't english words... but they are basially english in that it's used in inglish

I mean, "music" must be a french word, right? it's a misspelling of french "musique", right? :)

(well, I suppose that actually goes back to greek, etc.)

the ting is that english is in a.. særstilling (special position) sine it's a language of words from every other words. pretty much built up by every other language almost. a lot of other languages "borrow back" and still consider it.. "their language we do this with brand names very often in non-english speaking. like here also, not just in japan for example

and that too. originally it's germnaic latin greek

so much of english is derived or dervided ofderived of oold norse actually

all the preositions the wek days

Nostalgia (to use the recording title in question, created from Greek by a Swiss man…presumably a German-speaker? )

and the stuff that came via the french ie normandie? why you think it''s called "nor-man-die?" ;) originally viking that too!

:P

nostalgi

by your definition this is *not* a norwegian word sine it's not really altered enough

it'd work the other way too. all the borrowed words from english old and new wouldn't be considered that language words

is "stjerne" a norwegian word or a danish word? :)

pretty much every word wouldn't be the word of the languge it's spoken in!

kepstin-laptop: EXactly!

i shure as hell am not speaking or typing danish ! (not that I have any ill wil against danes in general or my favourite dane in particular :D)

but he's not typig in swedish when he typesdanish either

nore are eiher of us typingin german when we type scandinavain langs together

If you’re typing the same exact words in the same order…

…the distinction is meaningless.

it's *STILL* differnt languages

hawke: don't argue language war with a norweian, seriously :P

and the words aren't compltetly identical, but very similar. similar enough for some times there to be alsmot the same

e.g. "jag elskar dej" vs "jeg elsker deg"

norwegian even has 2 scripts. and sometimes people type their dialects

hell if I was to do that it's be.. "jæi ellskr dæi"

and that's what the japanese katana of スタルジア is

that's how they *say* it

you missed a 'no' in your copy/paste, but we get the point :)

if I was going to katana-ise my name it'd do it diffeerntly based on if it was a norwegian or an enlish way it's pronounced

oops

i though tit was star not nostarja

or how it was

but that's sutaru

"nostalgia" / "ノスタルジア" is the original words

yea i copied it wrng fro mthe scrollback

wrong from the scrollback

IMO that’s the same word in different scripts.

With the Latin form being the original.

so to you . ö is totally excangeable to ø ?

CatQuest: Probably not, since I don’t know the pronunciation of either.

hang on a sec whiel i do a thing

there 's that naruto credits song too.. nostalgiiaa :P

åhåh, nå blir det trøbbel

anyway hawke even if we talk about made up words, the recordings should be the same if they are this way on 100% tracklist, as they were chosen to be

i agree with this

we don’t need to know if they are this or that words… the tracklists 100% all print the same, why change the recordings ?

btw trøbbel =/= trouble