#musicbrainz

nikki: ping

I fixed http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q141873 Will area_bot catch it or does it have to be "scheduled" to rescan... How does it work ?

Question: Is there a point in the history where it only goes so far back? I cannot find the record where the artist was added.

snartal: there's been a couple of big data conversions in musicbrainz history, and some of the really early stuff might not have correct/full editing history.

that should be fairly rare, though.

This is the entry I am looking at. Wish to correct the sort order, but looking for the add or some edit on the sort order

Yeah, I think that was an issue with the really old freedb imports, they didn't get full editing history

Only thing I can find is ianmcorvidae editing the artist.

k

the sort name was probably automatically generated at some point :/

so yeah, just go ahead and fix it :)

hmm, actually, it looks right as it is now?

Shouldn't it be "Armstrong, Vanessa Bell"

she was born "Vanessa Bell", so Bell was her original last name

then presumably she got married or otherwise changed her name, and her new last name became "Bell Armstrong"

so "Bell Armstrong, Vanessa" is correct.

Yea, that's why I was looking for an edit on it.

it looks like the wikipedia article uses both "Bell Armstrong" and "Armstrong" almost interchangably.

hmm. but then again, http://viaf.org/viaf/70583750/ uses the other form, "Armstrong, Vanessa Bell"

looks like they might be citing wikipedia tho, so it could be a data loop :)

... why are there so many tricky cases in music data ...

:)

Yea, I'm thinking her performance artist name is Vanessa Bell Armstrong, as her earliest release I can find, back in 1984, shows "Vanessa Bell Armstrong" on the cover

That is why I was going to correct the sort order, and add a legal name what-cha-ma-thingy

Her debut album had that name, so I'm going with it.

man, most of the references on her wiki page are dead links, and I'm too lazy to wayback machine them

So, now the question is.... how do I add a legal name reference?

add an alias, set type to legal name

but I think "Vanessa Bell Armstrong" is probably her current legal name

hmmm, you have a point there, cause I don't have any proof that Vanessa Bell is her current legal name, just that its her birth name.

so yeah, the question boils down to: if you look for one of her cds in a record store, would it be under 'B' (Bell Armstrong, Vanessa) or 'A' (Armstrong, Vanessa Bell) :)

They still have those?

lol

heh

from that VIAF link, it looks like libraries have decided to file her under 'A'.

one more question... what is the "Use in a relationship" thing on the right?

It changes to "cancel creating relationship with..." when I click on it.

snartal: see http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Advanced_Relationship and http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/How_To_Make_Relatio...

basically, you click 'use in a relationship' on one page, navigate to the thing you want to relate it to, and you'll see a link that says "Relate to (whatever the first thing was)"

hmm, that VIAF thing is cool.... it is giving me some info about some artists that I haven't been able to find any references for.

Thanks!

So much to learn in MB

yeah, musicbrainz and the library community turn out to have a fair amount in common :)

do we have something like `Genre` field?

(faster to ask than to find)

I hope not!

It doesn't apparently.

As per http://musicbrainz.org/doc/General_FAQ#Why_does...

(also apparently it was faster to find than to ask :()

there is some support through tags and picard

genres are either advertising & marketing constructs related to bricks-and-mortar record shops, or else specific to individuals' understanding

you can set your own tags for releases and/or recordings and set to use (your own) folksonomy tags as genre with picard

Krystof: Well you can hardly mix up Electronic music with “Natural” one.

firstly, I don't think that's true; the dividing lines are not sharp. Secondly, even if it were true, individuals' useful classifications differ in non-trivial and non-overlapping ways

I agree with you somewhat, hence we need http://xkcd.com/927/!

(minus the ! if it is somehow a part of link)

I don't want to argue from authority, but this is a subject which is smack bang in the middle of my research area

no, we need to recognize individual difference and hence allow them to use their own folksonomy tags

I think we will add something at some point, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's similar to how tags work

http://www.csl.sony.fr/downloads/papers/2000/pa... # suggested reading, for starters

"... a general agreement on genre taxonomies does not exist.

as long as that's recognized, go wild :)

That link dies on me with 403

it works for me

(at least gvfs does, they're what whitelisting only a handful of UAs?)

(I really have no resolve to read any papers but teorethical CS and energetics papers… couldn't even manage to read Abstract in one go… pathetic)

hello MB

what should have been happy summer post VNM holidays days (with a handful of new CD)… turned to having been burglared dark days… flat completely upside down with missing stuff and no more closing door…  :/

I wish the style mailing list would have been killed long ago… :\

why?

In general: Because it's a mailing list.

Specifically: Because I can't figure out how to respond to a post there, without subscribing to the whole list.

if you know the posts message-id you can manually build in-reply-to and references headers in your reply :P

KRSCuan: Yes, the archive is missing some type of "reply" link (filling e-mail fields)

See, that's why we should have just killed the list and put everything on the forums. :S

KRSCuan: but there is dedicated software for mail, no other frontend for the forums than the forums itself

:3

People participating a lot in the list can do that more efficiently with a mailer (than just receiving notification mail)

having a forum you can participate in per mail would be great though

or does that work and nobody told me?

KRSCuan: try nabble when you really "have to" post… but it’s hard to log in (you have to create account etc.)

ML : KILL KILL KILL

JonnyJD: with MB forum you can subscribe to only the topics that interest you…

It's probably a thing of what kind of discussion we are accustomed to.

I think e-mail is completely unusable for many-to-many communication.

the forum's email/rss stuff is horrible

jesus2099: yes, that is a definitive pro of the forums

and the problems of the ML are more social than technological

well so it seems everybody agrees to drop ML today  ;p

And a threading structure is also unworkable for many-to-many.

putting it on a forum doesn't help the issue where things just go through because everyone but a couple people who agree give up and stop arguing, basically :P

Well, I personally think ML and forums are for different things.

so my opinion is that there are more important problems to solve than what tool it uses, and until those are dealt with keeping it using the same technologies is fine

If you want high exposure to something *now* you can't just open a thread in the forums. It takes a bit time until anybody reads it at all.

"fine" in the sense of "equally broken" anyway :P

ML is more like a blog with a really good commenting function

Really good?

JonnyJD: i read forum always, not ML so topics in ML go thourgh me while forum topics never (thanks to the http://forums.musicbrainz.org/search.php?action... URL)

Having too many channels is a bad thing.