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2022-05-09 12906, 2022
ZaphodBeeblebrox is now known as CatQuest
2022-05-09 12915, 2022
CatQuest is now known as dusjekatt
2022-05-09 12910, 2022
void09
flawed 30 million items db, or "perfect" 50k items db. hmm :)
2022-05-09 12924, 2022
void09
No, I am not complaining about anything. Just trying to figure out what's the plan here
2022-05-09 12915, 2022
dusjekatt is now known as CatQuest
2022-05-09 12917, 2022
CatQuest
honestly bb is young? we've only really had the ability for easy addition for a few years now. since monkey took over as main bb dev. with help from several gsocers and such.
2022-05-09 12917, 2022
CatQuest
this is what, the 4th, 5th? year we're in gsoc?
2022-05-09 12917, 2022
CatQuest
we didt have much of a community until bookogs caved. and that was what, 2 years? considering all this, that bb isn't even a finished database, it's stil in beta very much
2022-05-09 12917, 2022
CatQuest
think 50k is pretty good
2022-05-09 12920, 2022
CatQuest
musicbrainz is comming up on 20 years now. it has many many more items. yo ucan't compare it with a database that is barely 5 years old as it is.
2022-05-09 12923, 2022
CatQuest
furthermore we are improving every day, the database entry and database model will be become even better. and people will come, I'm sure
2022-05-09 12926, 2022
CatQuest
so I suggest instead of com^^^"trying to figure out" why there are so few items?
2022-05-09 12928, 2022
CatQuest
add some, add everything. hlep improve BB
2022-05-09 12952, 2022
CatQuest
also, quality over quantity
2022-05-09 12911, 2022
CatQuest
this is why mb is today the go-to database for music metadata
2022-05-09 12913, 2022
CatQuest
it wasn't so whne it was new. not so even 10 yearsago
2022-05-09 12936, 2022
CatQuest
trickle addition is better than mass mport of data
2022-05-09 12951, 2022
CatQuest
because we're in this for th long haul. yes
2022-05-09 12951, 2022
CatQuest
so at first, there is little. not much. very lacking
2022-05-09 12955, 2022
CatQuest
and thne some people will come, add theri shit
2022-05-09 12908, 2022
CatQuest
so more peopel will come say "this is shit data I will improve it!" and more peopel will come
2022-05-09 12913, 2022
CatQuest
tracktion develops
2022-05-09 12914, 2022
CatQuest
more and more
2022-05-09 12935, 2022
CatQuest
and suddenly those "30 million flawed items" in that db is peanuts
2022-05-09 12940, 2022
CatQuest
will it take time?
2022-05-09 12943, 2022
CatQuest
yes
2022-05-09 12945, 2022
CatQuest
is that a bad thing?
2022-05-09 12947, 2022
CatQuest
no.
2022-05-09 12909, 2022
void09
Yes, makes perfect sense what you say. Although I want to know how openlib is flawed and how BB is better in that regard.
2022-05-09 12925, 2022
monkey
Hi void09, sorry for the delay! As has been mentioned by other people, do keep in mind BookBrainz is in its infancy; as such it will suffer from comparisons with other more established projects (including some that have since closed shop).
2022-05-09 12926, 2022
monkey
OpenLibrary is not flawed, nor do I think we are really competing in the space. BookBrainz benefits from the infrastructure, experience, knowledge and community of MusicBrainz, while the OpenLibrary benefits from the same resources at the Internet Archive.
2022-05-09 12926, 2022
monkey
Our goals are mostly aligned, with these main differences: OpenLibrary is geared towards digitized content and lending of digital books, while BookBrainz focuses on metadata only and the stability, perennity and curation of the identifiers.
2022-05-09 12900, 2022
void09
hi monkey
2022-05-09 12916, 2022
monkey
In my opinion, having similar projects with mostly aligned goals is beneficial for the longevity of both projects.
2022-05-09 12953, 2022
void09
digitized/lending content is an addition to metadata. could have the same thing on bb if you just added some extra fields in the database I guess
2022-05-09 12906, 2022
monkey
Soon we will open collaboration channels between OL and BB with the aim to improve the quality of data on both sides, although exactly how remains to be seens (and programmed :) )
2022-05-09 12917, 2022
void09
Oh that's good
2022-05-09 12954, 2022
CatQuest
ah that open liberary, i confused it with a dfferent project, sos
2022-05-09 12957, 2022
monkey
void09: We can't legally do that. That's why MusicBrainz hosts all its cover art (similar copyright issues) with the Internet Archive with the joint project Cover Art Archive https://coverartarchive.org/
2022-05-09 12900, 2022
void09
I arrived here looking for a self hosted platform to aid in the collaboration of a group towards digitizing some paper media collections (old books, magazines and such)
2022-05-09 12925, 2022
void09
Of course you can't (well you can for public domain/opensource content)
2022-05-09 12952, 2022
void09
I was just saying works metadata is independent of actual content
2022-05-09 12906, 2022
monkey
Nice! Well, we certainly can't help with the digitization aspect, but I'm keen on improving how BookBrainz stores magazines and other such publications. Currently it's not very well adapted IMO
2022-05-09 12952, 2022
CatQuest
+1 o that
2022-05-09 12954, 2022
void09
Yes, neither is openlibrary. i wanted to have something ready to go, not having to hire someone to do mods, for a limited scope project
2022-05-09 12912, 2022
monkey
I see. I can't think of any other open source project that would be more adapted to magazines
2022-05-09 12913, 2022
void09
By the way, are hashes of content legal to store/distribute ? Or does that depend on the country you're in, or too unpredictable to risk ?
2022-05-09 12951, 2022
monkey
That's a very good question; the general answer for the MetaBrainz foundation is always "when in doubt, don't"
2022-05-09 12944, 2022
monkey
The Internet Archive is legally set up as a library so there's a lot of differences in what they're allowed to do, but MetaBrainz on the whole steers away from any possible copyright issues.
2022-05-09 12958, 2022
CatQuest
ah it was worldcat I misstook it for, sorry :(
2022-05-09 12937, 2022
monkey
We've had the same questions recently regarding fine-grained analyses of audio data: now that AIs are getting good enough, one could reconstitute a song from fine-grained spectrum analyses, and so that is a barrier for us.
2022-05-09 12907, 2022
void09
That book lending thing of internet archive is pretty cool. Even DRM-ed, it's actually possible to circumvent it. I wonder what the point is in keeping 80's magazines copyrighted. They can't make any more money off them
2022-05-09 12934, 2022
monkey
The gods of copyright are irrational…
2022-05-09 12946, 2022
monkey
Yeah, beats me.
2022-05-09 12930, 2022
monkey
I think they probably see everything in terms of "demand". If you want them catalogued for posterity, that counts as "demand", and so the remote possibility of money.
2022-05-09 12920, 2022
monkey
"Who knows what else people can do with 80's magazines if we let go of the copyright! We might be missing on some sweet cash !"
2022-05-09 12939, 2022
void09
It's pretty funny how lending of digital content works, like simulating lending of a physical copy. First I thought it was a joke
2022-05-09 12957, 2022
monkey
Me too :D But that's the deal the IA had to strike
2022-05-09 12900, 2022
void09
They seem to be doing it right, whatever they're doing. They're huge, they are sustainable, and they still exist :D
2022-05-09 12915, 2022
monkey
And even then, they are under legal battle with publishers and authors associations
2022-05-09 12941, 2022
void09
Oh I remember they pulled some unnecessary stunt during covid, to allow unlimited lending. Is that what you are talking about ?
2022-05-09 12955, 2022
monkey
Yep. We aim for the same goals; we'll be there in 20 years, and by then we'll also be huge :)
Yes, we did consider FRBR, but it's a serious departure from the existing model
2022-05-09 12918, 2022
monkey
That being said, perhaps some of the concepts could find their way into the BB model
2022-05-09 12946, 2022
monkey
For the most part, in BookBrainz the idea of an "item" doesn't make much sense (it makes a lot of sense for libraries that have specific physical or digital items to lend)
2022-05-09 12917, 2022
monkey
The other concepts should map fairly well to the BookBrainz schema if I'm not mistaken
2022-05-09 12931, 2022
monkey
(It's been a while since I looked at FRBR in details)
2022-05-09 12911, 2022
void09
Item as in a specific instance of a published edition (eg. 1 piece unique physical book) ?
2022-05-09 12938, 2022
void09
vs another such piece that might have a dick drawn on the first page :d
2022-05-09 12952, 2022
monkey
Yes, exactly.
2022-05-09 12948, 2022
void09
Yes that is completely unnecessary, as long as BB can be used as a parent database and items implemented as a extra db layer
2022-05-09 12950, 2022
monkey
Well, all in all that is the goal: to provide curated metadata with stable identifiers as a base for other projects
2022-05-09 12900, 2022
monkey
Oh, and all of that open source, of course :p Otherwise, ISBNs, VIAF ids, etc. would do the trick I suppose.
