ApeKattQuest (IRC): Hello! I wanted to check with you if you are certain about removing "[Multiple Languages]" in the language dropdown selection (https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/BB-875)
2026-02-09 04007, 2026
monkey[m]
I know we now have fields to allow for adding more than one language, for example for the work language, but that is not the case everywhere for example for an edition title.
2026-02-09 04007, 2026
monkey[m]
Not sure we would want "[Multiple Languages]" as the edition language, but thought I would check. Currently it is quite used for e.g. author names, where selecting a specific language does not necessarily always make sense (although I think that's another issue...)
2026-02-09 04007, 2026
BrainzBot
BB-875: Language dropdown still has [multiple languages] even if several languages can now be selected
2026-02-09 04041, 2026
reosarevok[m]
I'd argue selecting a specific language should always make sense
That's also my hunch. not sure if there is an edge case where we would want undefined multiple languages, I struggle to find one
2026-02-09 04015, 2026
reosarevok[m]
(but that's unrelated to whether multiple languages is useful in general)
2026-02-09 04031, 2026
MonkeyPython
monkey[m]: oh yes, diffidently, for thing like author names and titles we want to keep multiple languages
2026-02-09 04031, 2026
MonkeyPython
you'll note it's spesically the "language" eg "language of work/editing" that'sspesified
2026-02-09 04046, 2026
reosarevok[m]
There's one edge case in MB where I could see it, which is if you know a release tracklist or a work lyrics are in more than one language, but you cannot figure out which
2026-02-09 04052, 2026
reosarevok[m]
I guess that could potentially happen in BB too
2026-02-09 04059, 2026
MonkeyPython
^^ this
2026-02-09 04003, 2026
reosarevok[m]
I'm not sure if that compensates for possible misuse
2026-02-09 04009, 2026
monkey[m] nods
2026-02-09 04020, 2026
monkey[m]
Thanks, that echoes my thoughts
2026-02-09 04028, 2026
MonkeyPython
for names spesifically it's confusing too, becasue like take my name, its japanese AND swedsih, but it is norwegian too becasue last name cna be both sv, da and no
2026-02-09 04012, 2026
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2026-02-09 04012, 2026
monkeypython[m]
HMPH it seems my messages aren't comming thorugh
2026-02-09 04046, 2026
monkeypython[m]
monkey[m]: oh yes, diffidently, for thing like author names and titles we want to keep multiple languages
2026-02-09 04047, 2026
monkeypython[m]
you'll note it's specifically the "language" eg "language of work/editing" that's specified
2026-02-09 04047, 2026
monkeypython[m]
for names specifically it's confusing too, because like take my name, its japanese AND swedish, but it is norwegian too because last name can be both sv, da and no
2026-02-09 04000, 2026
monkeypython[m]
and i also said ^^^this to what reo said
2026-02-09 04024, 2026
reosarevok[m]
MonkeyPython: IRC ones or in general?
2026-02-09 04032, 2026
monkeypython[m]
also i wrote ia pm to you last week but perchance yo udid not get it monkey
2026-02-09 04038, 2026
monkey[m]
IRC ones. I see them in the chatlogs
2026-02-09 04053, 2026
reosarevok[m]
Boo. Maybe it's messed up again
2026-02-09 04021, 2026
monkey[m]
monkeypython[m]: Nope, didn't get it :/
2026-02-09 04027, 2026
monkeypython[m]
dang
2026-02-09 04049, 2026
reosarevok[m]
MonkeyPython: your name is your legal name in Norway, so arguably it's a Norwegian name in any case :)
2026-02-09 04059, 2026
reosarevok[m]
(it can also be an alias in Danish, Swedish, or whatever)
2026-02-09 04016, 2026
monkeypython[m]
"akira" is *not* a norwegian name ;)
2026-02-09 04055, 2026
monkeypython[m]
/off ironically my old name was not norwegian either, but finnish. technically.. (.no name would be with k instead, probably.)
2026-02-09 04052, 2026
reosarevok[m]
I guess I dunno what the point of the artist name language is in BB
2026-02-09 04004, 2026
reosarevok[m]
In MB it would for sure based on our guidelines be a Norwegian legal name alias
2026-02-09 04009, 2026
monkey[m]
Yeah, should be only for secondary aliases
2026-02-09 04025, 2026
reosarevok[m]
(and, of course, the artist name)
2026-02-09 04052, 2026
monkeypython[m]
i agree there tbh
2026-02-09 04008, 2026
monkeypython[m]
but also aliases MUST have a n language, and soemtimes they're jsut typoes sooo...
2026-02-09 04023, 2026
reosarevok[m]
I would argue it makes perfect sense for all the names to be marked with a language, and for people if their birth name then it should always be the language of the country they were legally born in
2026-02-09 04045, 2026
reosarevok[m]
MB doesn't require a language for aliases specifically for things like search hints for typos
2026-02-09 04051, 2026
monkeypython[m]
which langauge tho. sometiems a country has 2 languages or more
2026-02-09 04002, 2026
monkey[m]
Best effort?
2026-02-09 04020, 2026
reosarevok[m]
Well, in most of those cases the language of the name is clear enough, even if there are several
2026-02-09 04020, 2026
monkeypython[m]
also it's problematicf if someone is dual citesenship
2026-02-09 04025, 2026
reosarevok[m]
But yeah, it can always be a bit tricky
2026-02-09 04032, 2026
monkeypython[m]
or born in one country and thne natrulaised in another
2026-02-09 04043, 2026
reosarevok[m]
Well, if someone has dual citizenship and both passports show the same name, that's the alias in both languages
2026-02-09 04053, 2026
monkeypython[m]
or situes where the org country doesn't even EXCIST anymore
2026-02-09 04002, 2026
reosarevok[m]
If one has a different name, a transliteration or whatnot, then clearly that's the alias in that language
2026-02-09 04019, 2026
monkeypython[m]
reosarevok[m]: but what langauge is the author name?
2026-02-09 04027, 2026
monkeypython[m]
yo ucna chose only one forauthr name
2026-02-09 04043, 2026
reosarevok[m]
I'm sure there are grey areas, but if someone in Spain is named "Kevin" because of whatever reason, that's still a Spanish name :)
2026-02-09 04059, 2026
reosarevok[m]
(even if it isn't originally a Spanish name)
2026-02-09 04001, 2026
monkeypython[m]
btw reo aerozol wants to go early
2026-02-09 04028, 2026
reosarevok[m]
monkeypython[m]: Well, that's the same issue we already have for Russian composers naturalized in the US in MB
2026-02-09 04049, 2026
reosarevok[m]
"pick one" is probably the best we can do - "multiple languages" does not seem better, it gives less info
see,s author name is a standin for "nationality" then .. not actually the language of the name(s)
2026-02-09 04035, 2026
reosarevok[m]
Well, I guess the problem is using the name "language" rather than "locale", which is the only thing that makes sense for people's names
2026-02-09 04050, 2026
reosarevok[m]
(language vs. locale is also an issue for all those Japanese music bands named in English but in kana - technically the name is in English but having キュート as an English name is going to confuse many people, luckily in MB we have locale which is clearly Japanese)
2026-02-09 04040, 2026
reosarevok[m]
Admittedly for book titles (and release titles) "locale" does seem a bit sillier
2026-02-09 04054, 2026
monkey[m]
Yes.
2026-02-09 04004, 2026
reosarevok[m]
Since the title of "Rain of Blood" is probably "Rain of Blood" in basically all locales
2026-02-09 04015, 2026
reosarevok[m]
(but it would be interesting potentially to have translations)
2026-02-09 04040, 2026
reosarevok[m]
For books though titles do get translated often, so I guess it's better there
2026-02-09 04059, 2026
monkeypython[m]
yes but that'sa differnt work again
2026-02-09 04021, 2026
monkeypython[m]
aliases on works shoudl be typoes, or commonly known names for those thathave these
2026-02-09 04031, 2026
monkey[m]
I do think we will want to original work to have aliases for other languages, even if there is a separate translated work
2026-02-09 04039, 2026
reosarevok[m]
Sure, but I guess the name of the original work in a translated language should also be on the original work, yes
2026-02-09 04046, 2026
monkeypython[m]
or works witotuh a title cna have a n alais that is the first lien or fannameor what
2026-02-09 04008, 2026
reosarevok[m]
I mean, when I talk about "El Conde de Montecristo" I'm not specifically talking about the Spanish translation
2026-02-09 04022, 2026
monkeypython[m]
monkey[m]: perhaps, but right nowlasies are kinda a mess in the interface. it looks really cluttery
2026-02-09 04029, 2026
reosarevok[m]
It also applies to the general work concept, when speaking in Spanish
2026-02-09 04018, 2026
reosarevok[m]
So it seems valid both as a primary name for the translation and a Spanish title for the original work
2026-02-09 04027, 2026
reosarevok[m]
At the same time 😅
2026-02-09 04008, 2026
monkeypython[m]
perhasp, but I won't know waht you're talking about if you use the spanish name... if i use a norwegian name on a very famous work that's not norwegian or is norwegian, do you know what i'm talking about? perhaps you are right that it 𝑠ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 have that as an alias...
2026-02-09 04033, 2026
monkeypython[m]
<reosarevok[m]> "It also applies to the general..." <- same, lmao
2026-02-09 04058, 2026
reosarevok[m]
Yeah, I will only if I have an alias :D
2026-02-09 04004, 2026
reosarevok[m]
So yea, aliases are always neat
2026-02-09 04007, 2026
MonkeyPython
test
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MonkeyPython
reosarevok: and monkey ping when you come wake up because irc/matrix is stopid and shows you offline (I get "No such nick/channel" when I try pm)
