#metabrainz

that's all from me, fin!

Alright.

That’s all for reviews then. Thanks for all of them! :)

We have a few additional items on the agenda. First up is…

Freso: Make mb/user/edit redirect to mb/account/edit

Oh, hey, guess that’s me!

So, turns out I’m not the only one having been caught by doing https://musicbrainz.org/user/edit when they meant to go to https://musicbrainz.org/account/edit

Additionally, it turns out that the "edit" account has been unused since 2006 (almost 15 years now), has no edits, votes, ratings, tags, … to their name either.

They don’t even have an e-mail address.

lol

The account _would_ eventually get removed by some of the MBS tickets to clean up accounts, but I’m thinking it might be good to do it sooner and make /user/edit redirect to /account/edit

Any objections to going down this path?

this feels very odd to me.

it feels a bit weird to me to have /user/[username] work differently for one specific url

should we forbid some user names to prevent future clashes with pages?

I think I would prefer to take over the profile and put at fat message there.

but open to other solutions. one single redirect is weird and kludgy

my first though was to put a message on the page, yea

I agree with ruaok on this

thought*

simple too. :)

Freso: you can do that, yes?

Alright. Any objections to putti

ruaok: Yep.

But then we need to actually avoid this being autoremoved later :)

cool, onward.

kiss

So I guess you need to also add a verified email

make en edit?

or that.

reosarevok: I was thinking of registering it with support@

Freso: sure, works

Anyway.

ruaok: Improved MB monitoring

aight.

so, we have a telegram group that we get reports about our services being in bad health.

but, it seems that it is easy to turn off notifications -- something I really try and avoid.

for obvious reasons.

and in the end only zas and I get the messages as of late and then have to digging around to see what is up.

I'd like to improve on this.

let me go on a tangent for a minute....

back at EMusic my boss told the web and hosting teams that every 500 error will get a "page" to the whole dev team.

every single one. at all times of day.

he felt that 500s were totally inexcusable and made the punishment for them rather high.

I'm not advocating that.

but I think it is an interesting engineering philosophy. what can we do do bring out 500s to near zero>

?

that is a more philisophical question, I would like the dev team to think about.

one thing I've noticed is that because all alerts are concentrated in 2 groups, its quite difficult to see what's yours

more specifically, I would like the MB team to think about how to improve this. turning off telegram notifications will happen again, so that isn't a good solution.

and so a lot of alerts for something that I'm not directly involved in makes it hard for me to care/think that something might actually be for me

Same

alastairp: that's is good observation, perhaps we need to have them separated by teams.

I have a bunch of ideas about improving monitoring and alerting

agreed.

hmm.

sometimes it feels to me like many alerts aren't actionalable by anyone, either

right. I do have the notifications on now (sorry about that) but am open to ways to improve this

one of the things in the google SRE book talks about how alerts should be actionable

bitmap: can you please circle the team and think up a stop gap measure for improving things for the next.... 2 months?

I used to monitor SIR using grafana directly than telegram

yes, I'll have a think

"load > 15" followed by "load < 15" 30 seconds later is not actionable at all, and feels like fluff that causes more messages than it's worth

then lets enjoy our vacations, and then in september, let us have a meeting with zas, bitmap and myself (perhaps alastair) to discuss next steps for more concrete improvements.

how does that sound?

(but yes, I'm aware of the counter to that, which is that these alerts can also be useful to point us in the direction of something going wrong, high cpu temp, etc_)

I'm delaying upgrading to grafana 8 which has many changes to alert system, and I would like to get rid of influxdb and replace it with prometheus (which would also make us able to get rid of nagios): then we need "per team" telegram alerts, which is quite easy to set up

ruaok: sounds good to me

alastairp: the load ones are BS anyway. I need to fix aretha and patton to be more reasonable.

these consul template issues just seem so opaque to me

I think having alerts for team MB, team hosting (zas) and team pythonbrainz might make sense.

yes

bitmap: alastairp and lucifer have been doing great (laborious) work on this to improve that for pythongbrainz.

thongbrainz?

jeez, mr. kaye.

;)

alastairp, bitmap lets chat about consul improvements when we're all back from vacay, shall we?

that being said, our sentry logging for this is way too verbose, and I find I'm in the same situation as the telegram alerts

we need to tweak these notifiations

yes to all that.

yeah, let's do that

k.

actually, I wanted to bring zas into this conversation about container health too

fin, freso.

Alright!

+1

happy to talk later. thanks

Last item on the agenda!

reo: MBS-9841

MBS-9841: Warn about the new beta version on mb.o https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/MBS-9841

reosarevok:

Oh, damn, we wanted to add a quick talk about one more thing too - bitmap, can you add it to the agenda?

In the meanitme

*meantime

So: the general idea of that ticket is "how do we get more people to beta"

summertime and then we decide to have a full meeting? heh.

Do people think it's too invasive to have a "go check beta" banner on prod whenever beta is out?

a full banner, yes.

something less intrusive, perhaps.

reosarevok: well I tried to set the topic and it crashed Konversation, lol

it doesn't have to be too obvious, and perhaps only targetted on auto editors?

or experienced users at least

https://github.com/metabrainz/musicbrainz-serve... should make the "Use beta" at the bottom menu a bit bigger too, which I guess is a small start

Maybe we should have a forum thread "What would get you to use the beta site consistently" or something

having a larger message at the bottom sounds okay to me

FWIW, the main reason that I don’t use it, is that I don’t want to remember to remove the "beta." from all URLs I copy/paste.

^^this

could we normalize pasted mb urls somehow?

could we route traffic to beta based on a config setting?

Yeah, I can see how that's a bit annoying - not sure what would be a solution for that

it's annoying to have beta.mb links in edit notes too

(E.g., when replying/responding to editor reports – I don’t want to send a brand new editor to beta.)

I mean, we can normalize them on the edit notes, but not everywhere else, I guess

Perhaps put out a call for volunteer beta testers and send an email when a new version is released?

so, that if "use beta" is set, you get routed to beta, but are still on a meb.org domain.

^^ not a bad idea

all your work. :)

but given that we had a request for something similar, it might be good to tackle this at the same time.

So how would that work? No beta. links at all anymore?

( alastairp wanted a a subpath to go to a specific backend)

it would be transparent to the user.

the urls would be musicbrainz.org/edit/user (lol) when the content comes from beta.musicbrainz.org/edit/user

Right now you can go to https://beta.musicbrainz.org/ temporarily to check something without having to have a beta cookie

That's the only difference that could be annoying

But probably less annoying than the copying thing :)

anyways, I think there is interest in this. but perhaps not worth to keep the meeting open.

discuss with zas, mb team?

I guess? :)

I like the idea, sure

zas?

Ok

The last issue involves this volunteer waiting in the forum: https://community.metabrainz.org/t/looking-for-...

(only bringing it up because of them waiting)

Let's discuss this tomorrow if you mind, I have too run off

We were talking earlier and their implementation seems like it would be misused a lot, and I was especially curious about Freso's ideas on how to deal with this.

Oh, remind me to look at it tomorrow?

One option would be to have some specific subset of users (account admins?) be able to set a specific alias as a deadname somehow

And that to make us treat credits differently

But I don't have a good idea of how to do / maintain it without also bringing more unwanted visibility to the names, so

For now, does it seem fine to tell them that we're looking at the idea in-team and seeing what we can come up with?

So they don't just wait there for some answer?

SGTM

Ok, will do that for now

Thanks

Alright.

And I think that concludes the meeting _just_ in time for the 1h mark!