#metabrainz

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      • pbryan
        Does anyone have suggestions on good persistent IRC clients? I could just use ssh, tmux, etc. but was thinking it's time to join the 21st century.
      • https://thelounge.chat/ looks promising.
      • avalos
        pbryan: Convos!
      • It is fast and easy to configure.
      • pbryan
        avalos: Nice, thanks!
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      • mayhem
        reosarevok: when you're around later this afternoon, we should talk about AI and Music. And MusicBrainz.
      • does AI music get added to MB? What qualifies to be added?
      • because AI music is coming. soon. https://github.com/lucidrains/musiclm-pytorch
      • CatQuest
        sigh
      • I guess like all things "if it's released" ?
      • mayhem
        what does that mean?
      • CatQuest
        if whoever programs the ai like creates a musical release of it
      • I guess?
      • mayhem
        what is "programming an AI"? the coders? or the people writing the text description that the AI uses to generate music?
      • CatQuest
        honestly I'd except there to be special AI artists and it get's attached to that
      • expect*
      • mayhem
        what if milli-vanilli like people decide to pass off AI music as their own work?
      • CatQuest
        milli-vanilli?
      • well what od we do with other peopel who plagiarise?
      • I think we do put it on the actual artist whne found out
      • mayhem
      • CatQuest
        huh
      • hm, about AI art, honestly the only thing that bothers me is the use of artist's work to train the AI without their permission. AI houdl only be trained on PD or otherwise licensed things
      • mayhem
        ok, now you just locked music AIs to be created by companies who have music licenses. Spotify, Apple, Amazon, et all. That doesn't seem so wise either.
      • foreshadowing: There are no good answers.
      • alastairp
        can someone have a quick browse through https://test-chatlogs.metabrainz.org/ and see if things appear to be working (apart from the out of date logs)?
      • mayhem
        huh. that's a new one.
      • CatQuest
        oh I meant that in general, not spesifically music, and I meant like, artists (music, drawings etcetera) explicitly permitting this rather than big companies using licenses this way
      • alastairp: there semes to be a stray "#} " after the date in the header
      • alastairp
        CatQuest: yes, that's already been fixed, thanks!
      • CatQuest
        do we still have #musicbrainz-ja and -de
      • seems a better idea to jsut redirect these ot regular chat
      • alastairp
        it seems that the bot isn't in them, even if they do exist. Perhaps we could remove them from the list of channels? (unless the libera history is still useful)
      • CatQuest
        telegram can also be redirected i think, i belive all issues with spam and whatnot have been fixed upstream
      • i actually don't think he libera history is useful at all
      • it seems it's farly non-existant
      • alastairp
        that being said, I also don't know where there is a link to the freenode history, it'd be nice to have that linked somewhere on the homepage (that's more an admin task I think, rather than the development stuff that I'm doing now)
      • CatQuest
        ye
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      • yvanzo
        on editing the wiki Communication/IRC
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      • alastairp: just added the previous chat logs, did not look into the language channels (which I never joined)
      • Freso
        aerozol: Do you happen to be around? Can you see if you are able to edit old posts when you’re around? (I manually bumped your trust level to 4 (the highest).)
      • alastairp CatQuest: BrainzBot is in both #musicbrainz-de and #musicbrainz-ja. Both channels have seen 0 actual messages since the Libera migration. (-ja has has a couple of test messages by me, and -de had a short conversation between outsidecontext and myself about the /topic and some other administrative stuff just after the migration.)
      • alastairp: freenode chatlogs is generally in the form of https://chatlogs.metabrainz.org/brainzbot/:chan... e.g. https://chatlogs.metabrainz.org/brainzbot/metab... - I/we didn’t consider a possible network change when the bot was first set up, so the "network name" is just "brainzbot" for freenode.
      • pbryan: FWIW, most of the MeB team uses IRCCloud :)
      • alastairp
        Freso: yeah, thanks. I knew that the other items were there - I guess if we switch the admin flag to show the channel on the front page then we'll end up with 2 channels with the same name on the front page?
      • it might be easy to add a small code change to include the network name (and even rename 'brainbot' to 'freenode') at some future time
      • CatQuest
        oh we tried that but it broke all old links
      • alastairp
        oh, good point!
      • but given that yvanzo added the history links to the doc, and no one has come asking for the logs in years since the switchover, probably not urgent
      • again, a code fix could make both /brainzbot/ and /freenode/ work, but probably just as easy to not rename it, thne
      • mayhem wonders if ben is very cold
      • no, he's just well cold
      • mayhem
        that.
      • CatQuest
        explain the joke pls
      • mayhem
        ah yes, pretty simple.
      • CatQuest: ben fred = well cold in catalan
      • CatQuest
        :O ::D
      • haha
      • alastairp
        the listenbrainz 2022 history trains on a GPU in about 3 seconds (about 10x slower on 16 cpu cores)
      • Freso
        alastairp: I think people have asked for old logs like one or two times since the migration, but yeah, not a very common occurrence. :)
      • CatQuest
        mostly I thikn it's relevant for old links in edit notes and the like
      • alastairp
        "there is a link on the wiki" is a good answer for that then. In fact, perhaps we could even link to the wiki from the homepage
      • CatQuest
        ad selv refrences in the chatlogs themselves
      • alastairp
        Freso: can I ask you to log in to the admin on https://test-chatlogs.metabrainz.org/ and just click around and check that nothing is broken? I did a django upgrade, so some things may have changed
      • mayhem
      • should be required reading for the LB team, come to think of it.
      • alastairp
        not yet, I'll put it on my list
      • mayhem
        lucifer: monkey akshaaatt : ^^ plz read when you have some time. One of our directors spells out the harsh reality of the world today. It is both a threat to our existence as well as an opportunity.
      • Freso
        Btw, I moved the list of "review regulars" from my User:Freso page to https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/MetaBrainz_Meeting... and referenced it in https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/MetaBrainz_Meeting... to have it be in a more public place. (I also took the liberty of remove CatQuest’s vacation note for them in the process.)
      • CatQuest
        🙏 thanks
      • mayhem
        "Enshittification" should be coming a household term.
      • CatQuest
        lets not enshittify things if we can avoid it
      • Freso
        Relatedly, https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/index.php?title=Me... is the diff for the change which also changed the direct references to me. Go ahead and edit further if needed.
      • Also also also, I tried making a reo a forum admin on Discourse, which supposedly should have sent me an e-mail to confirm, but I’m not seeing any mail arriving. I don’t know if that’s because Discourse sending mails broke with the recent update attempt or if it’s something else, but, yeah.
      • alastairp: I get this when trying to go to the admin page. :) https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/7lq5t...
      • alastairp
        sigh, so stuff definitely broke in the upgrade, then. thanks
      • Freso
        Np!
      • alastairp
        I see the exception
      • CatQuest
        internal server ever?
      • :D?
      • CatQuest flails a bit
      • listen I want to help!
      • mayhem
        here is something I've learned recently:
      • akshaaatt
        mayhem: absolutely agreed that we should avoid diverting our focus to shitty concepts.
      • mayhem
        I will not entertain the thought!
      • akshaaatt
        That being said, we are a non profit, hence, that concept is already out of the park
      • What I’ve seen is that people tend to enshittfy once they are greedy for retention times, more clicks and more ways to show ads to the users
      • We seem to be feature specific, which is great.
      • mayhem
        ding. exactly. that.
      • CatQuest
        aka marketliberalistic capitalism
      • of like everything
      • mayhem
        we're building stuff that *WE* want to use. Fuck the capitalists.
      • alastairp
      • CatQuest
        :100%:
      • mayhem
        Yerp.
      • and also running something that isn't shitty will allow us to appeal to the users to help support it.
      • $20/year for LB seems reasonable, no?
      • CatQuest
        the thing about having the guy who provides a service get paid for it is like "let people donate *if they want to*
      • imho
      • akshaaatt
        Subscription > ads
      • mayhem
        support > subscription > ads :p
      • alastairp
        CatQuest: at some low level, this is definitely more trouble than it's worth though. I wonder if he stopped taking donations because of the additional tax overhead of doing so
      • akshaaatt
        20 dollars per year sounds good to me mayhem, but we could think of reducing that number per country
      • mayhem
        alastairp: almost certainly so.
      • akshaaatt: that will only be a suggestion, anyway.
      • CatQuest
        I was subscribed to lfm, and i was happy about it, but the minute they where like 2oh, no yo u*have* to pay (and you can't even pay if you're in the wrong country") i was like "nope"
      • mayhem
        if people support us, they should support us to whatever tune they want.
      • akshaaatt
        Right
      • mayhem
        not ruling out 7fef22bd-76aa-4803-b56b-93a5d6e70662
      • CatQuest
        alastairp: I mean, yea. but that's a problm with the tax system too
      • mayhem
      • akshaaatt
        XD
      • CatQuest
        !remember 7fef22bd-76aa-4803-b56b-93a5d6e70662=Money ~ Pink Floyd
      • BrainzBot
        I will remember "7fef22bd-76aa-4803-b56b-93a5d6e70662" for you CatQuest.
      • CatQuest
        .. tfw entity has yellow background but open edits are 0
      • akshaaatt
      • Talking about AI music, I think it’s going to change the market forever, for the bad I believe
      • mayhem
        this is exactly what I am talking about. we need to be ready for this. its coming very very soon.
      • I'm already dismayed at the state of what people think are acceptable sources of music.
      • when I first arrived in spain 10 years ago a friend asked me to make music for her party.
      • when I asked what I should use, she pointed to the YouTube tab already open. "duh, what more do you need?"
      • sigh.
      • so, ChatGPTforMusic is going to be .... something.
      • rather than picking a different song, users will tell the AI how to change the music. people may just listen to constant streams of AI without ever looking back to Spotify.
      • akshaaatt
        Tbh we should use ChatGPT in the near future to revamp our codebase and stuff firstly. I use chatgpt on a daily basis these days and it is hella smooth.
      • mayhem
        I like monkey's idea of using chatgpt to help with the mundane task of writing tests for us.
      • akshaaatt
        Agreed
      • CatQuest
        ok, i keep reading this, WTAF is "ChatGPT"
      • akshaaatt
        It could be your favourite thing CatQuest . Just try it for real
      • We need to be smart and not take it into our ego. ChatGPT is like a devs best friend
      • CatQuest
        ..
      • i'm not a dev