Question - there's a cd ("Colors of the World: Papua New Guinea"), which is a compilation from 1999. It looks like none of the artists are credited on the CD. It's on Spotify, but everything is credited to "World Geographic Explorer". So if I'm putting this into MusicBrainz, who are the artists on each track? Is it blank (can it be blank) or is it
2021-12-01 33512, 2021
vzctr
"World Geographic Explorer", or someone else
2021-12-01 33543, 2021
vzctr
I bet if I'm able to get a copy of the disc or of the audio I can see what the AcoustIDs are, but I bet Shazam will just point to the same compilation. The ISRCs from Spotify are credited to "World Geographic Explorer"
So, Various Artists for the release/rg, [unknown] for the tracks unless I can ID recordings somehow? Sounds reasonable
2021-12-01 33554, 2021
derwin
yeah, I think so.
2021-12-01 33502, 2021
derwin
though I am not an expert on this type of release
2021-12-01 33555, 2021
derwin
some of the releases in the series have credited artists on discogs...
2021-12-01 33525, 2021
vzctr
Yep! A lot of them do, but I think the "explorers" series doesn't include artists, and their absence is noted on quite a few pages (cf this fan site http://www.sahmigo.com/details/p/papua_new_guinea… )
not too surprising, sadly :( that's how a lot of folk/world music gets done
2021-12-01 33523, 2021
derwin
my hunch is that the original production didn't bother with credits
2021-12-01 33534, 2021
derwin
so the reason all the downstream don't have them is that they effectively don't exist.
2021-12-01 33531, 2021
aerozol
vzctr: you can also do [unknown] credited as [World Geographic Explorer], if you think it will help people with identification etc :)
2021-12-01 33555, 2021
aerozol
sounds like a super interesting rabbit hole! if you can get your findings into mb somehow then time well spent for sure
2021-12-01 33544, 2021
aerozol
brb, just releasing a totally fresh Papa New Guinea compilation on Spotify
2021-12-01 33512, 2021
vzctr
Melanesian '60s surfer rock, so hot right now
2021-12-01 33506, 2021
vzctr
I submitted acoustIDs for the recordings and got 1 other hit on all of them... but just "Track01", "Track02", etc
2021-12-01 33527, 2021
vzctr
nothing, even for the more famous ("famous") songs on there, so they must all be covers by some group in PNG
2021-12-01 33544, 2021
vzctr
I nerdsniped myself enough with this 😂
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CatQuest
this (no actual artist credits) is my main beef with "world" and "natgeo" style recordings.
2021-12-01 33513, 2021
CatQuest
like "oh yea document all the weird and wonderful different living music traditions of th world.. but ignore who the people are actually playing it in the recording you're doing?
2021-12-01 33513, 2021
CatQuest
🙄
2021-12-01 33507, 2021
CatQuest
it's low-key dehumanising. more interested in the "culture" thna the actual human individuals
2021-12-01 33515, 2021
CatQuest
some guy with a bone in his nose playing a mouth bow while his cousin and daughters sing and play decorated homemade drums and strings are *still* ___artists__ with names
2021-12-01 33549, 2021
derwin
CatQuest: one of the reasons I appreciate the lomax father/son duo, even though they exoticized, they cared about accreditation
2021-12-01 33515, 2021
crism
Frank & Anne Warner copyrighted the songs they collected jointly with their sources. Frank Proffitt made a ton of money on “Tom Dooley” as a result… whereas we don’t even know who these PNG schlubs are. Sad.
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vzctr
agreed
2021-12-01 33506, 2021
evelyn is now known as ev
2021-12-01 33539, 2021
vzctr
The weird thing with this compilation is that there are a few songs that are more famous, or are imports/covers ("Walkabout Long Chinatown" is from the Solomon Islands, for example).
2021-12-01 33523, 2021
ev
derwin: I find the lumping together of folk/world music kind of distasteful. The latter is a relatively recent phenomenon and primarily a commercial one. When Alan Lomax and Shirle Collins toured the American south, there was no such thing as World music. And Alan Lomax certainly didn't exoticise as much as the modern 'world music' labels do today
2021-12-01 33533, 2021
vzctr
Some journo was tweeting about how "world" music has died, because you can just stream the artists directly. You don't need to hope that some label compiles the right, say, afro house track, or that some A&R guy will stumble upon William Onyeabor
2021-12-01 33503, 2021
ev
I'm not sure about the accrediation aspect though. As I recall it (and I'm not 100% certain on this one), Alan Lomax the younger would get those he recorded to sign a contract handing over royalties to him
2021-12-01 33524, 2021
vzctr
I was going through my parents' CD collection trying to find stuff, one thing that struck me is how compilation-driven music collections were before the internet
2021-12-01 33558, 2021
ev
that's because people only wanted one or two singles and with CDs, they would much more often try to make you buy the whole album. buying the compilation with multiple hits is going to be the cheapest way to get the desired result
2021-12-01 33507, 2021
vzctr
yeah, it makes total sense, just something I didn't think about since I grew up with iTunes
2021-12-01 33532, 2021
kepstin
(note that this varies in different markets - even now, cd singles are still sold in japan, for some reason)
2021-12-01 33536, 2021
ev
japan is reall the exception, it is the last bastion of physical media which isn't trendy records people buy but don't pla
2021-12-01 33542, 2021
ev
play*
2021-12-01 33559, 2021
chrisb read recently that in 2021, the sale of music vinyl exceeded the sale of CDs
2021-12-01 33549, 2021
ev
at least in the UK that's totally not true. there were 16m CDs sold in the UK in 2020, but only 4.8m records
2021-12-01 33541, 2021
chrisb
ev: yes, that seems more reasonable
2021-12-01 33543, 2021
ev
and both CDs and LPs are nothing compared to streaming
2021-12-01 33528, 2021
ev
Maybe some LP sales are being missed, but I find it diffficult to believe that e.g. Bandcamp is accounting for 12m missing LPs (and Bandcamp actually reports sales figures)
2021-12-01 33535, 2021
chrisb
i am more concerned about lossy vs lossless streaming and downloads
2021-12-01 33508, 2021
ev
music downloads are almost certainly pretty niche. The sales figures I can find account for sstreaming services and say nothing about things like the Amazon MP3 store
2021-12-01 33515, 2021
chrisb clings to their CDs and flacs
2021-12-01 33527, 2021
CatQuest bemusedly reads the "cd's are basically dead outside of jp" discussion
2021-12-01 33531, 2021
CatQuest bought 3 cd's today :D
2021-12-01 33518, 2021
CatQuest
i mean, sure i rip them and put into musicplayer. but still
2021-12-01 33557, 2021
CatQuest
one day i'll achive my goal of getting a hold of a cd jukebox thing, it'll play any song or every disc randomly
2021-12-01 33514, 2021
CatQuest
sigh, probably not possible
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chrisb
i read somewhere that ripping with replaygain makes the flacs lossy...
2021-12-01 33552, 2021
chrisb
maybe in the flac(1) manpage
2021-12-01 33531, 2021
chrisb
so not the ripping, but the transcoding from .wav to .flac
2021-12-01 33556, 2021
Clint
how would it?
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kepstin
replaygain just adds some metadata to the files so that a player can adjust playback volume automatically
2021-12-01 33525, 2021
kepstin
it doesn't make any changes to the audio data
2021-12-01 33520, 2021
kepstin
(some tools have options to modify the audio to the levels specified by the replaygain metadata for compatibility with players that don't support replaygain, but those options are usually explicitly marked as lossy)
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ev
replaygain is definitely tags
2021-12-01 33507, 2021
ev
flac is lossless, it has no lossyness. you can transcode losslessly from flac to wav and back again
2021-12-01 33559, 2021
ev
a source of confusion may be pre-emphasis on certain early CD masters, iTunes and such can detect and correct for thiss (as should be done, otherwise the equalisation is wrong), but this isn't common anymore
2021-12-01 33503, 2021
ev
if you encode a WAV file with flac and then decode it back to WAV, it is a perfect representation of the original file (it may not be bit for bit perfect as there are certain blocks that the flac encoding may ignore, but these are not part of the audio)
2021-12-01 33534, 2021
kepstin
if you use the "--apply-replaygain-which-is-not-lossless" option when decoding a flac to wav, then it will apply the replaygain (which is not lossless)
I am trying to add a disc id to a release, however, the listing has tracks 1-15, but the disc reports 16 tracks (because of leading data track) and I can't make headds or tails of how to fix
There's an existing 15 track discid, so maybe there's two versions?
2021-12-01 33555, 2021
kidclamp
well, not it has 15 tracks, 2-16
2021-12-01 33520, 2021
reosarevok
Well, it should still have 16, just 1 is data, then?
2021-12-01 33542, 2021
kidclamp
Yes, so if I open in rhythmbox, 15 tracks - reported to musicbrainz 16
2021-12-01 33506, 2021
kidclamp
liner lists 1-15
2021-12-01 33502, 2021
reosarevok
Yeah
2021-12-01 33523, 2021
reosarevok
I expect you'd want a second release in the same group, with a track 1 [data track] and then the usual 15 tracks in 2-16
2021-12-01 33506, 2021
CatQuest
yep
2021-12-01 33518, 2021
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kidclamp
yeah, it sorta works - picard understands it now, but rhythmbox only understands 15 tracks - so the titles are all off - but that's a rhythmbox problem I supose
2021-12-01 33508, 2021
kidclamp
thanks all!
2021-12-01 33517, 2021
derwin
vinyl is made of plastic. heavy, fragile plastic that can't be recycled. thank you for coming to my ted talk.
2021-12-01 33505, 2021
derwin
ev: "world" is a stupid concept, sure, it's alternately either "what we call folk music that isn't from america or the UK" or "all music not from america or the UK"
2021-12-01 33543, 2021
derwin
ev: but ultimately, if the world didn't want their music branded as world, they should have been a giant country whose music industry dominated the world for a century /shrug
