ypu are not wrong. this banjo is a generic instrument for credits like "banjo" and no information is there. in general i'm weary of making more "previously known as an spesificinstrument" into "families" becasue of the heavy drama attached... butthe type could probably be set asfamily, i agree. i'll think about it (also feel free to create a ticket with "modify instrument" as component. that way I will not forget)
Family seems sensible here, but what's the "usual" banjo? Because there's only tenor banjo as a sub-instrument
2024-08-01 21408, 2024
reosarevok[m]
It would make sense to have the specific option available for when we're sure?
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MonkeyPython
hmm afaik the usual option *is* the five string. ie that's the one that's usually used when "banjo" is credited
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lw
reosarevok[m], MonkeyPython: it depends on the context. in Irish music, "banjo" by itself means the tenor, since the 5-string is almost unheard of there. in American music it's the other way around... but we already have both "4-string" (tenor) and "5-string" banjos as subtypes
2024-08-01 21425, 2024
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lw
huh actually MB considers "tenor banjo" to be a subtype of "4-string banjo"... but in any case there are already subtypes of banjos for all the banjos
neat, yesterday i added a new work from a release and today i linked a recording from another artist to the same work... all this effort adding works is actually useful!
2024-08-01 21432, 2024
minimal
lw: but there's no Guinness, and no harps, and no Leprechaun in the image ;-)
... there really should be a way to add annotations to works
2024-08-01 21429, 2024
lw
reosarevok[m]: i can file a bug for this if it's easier but i found a trivial formatting error on this release, track 12: https://musicbrainz.org/release/eb3141ad-7d63-454… - "medley including a instrumental recording of" - should be "an"
if it was only a single case (like you can see with acapella/live in the long link phrase) that could be done
2024-08-01 21416, 2024
crism
Is it all the same performer, do you think?
2024-08-01 21450, 2024
lw
crism: not mine, i just found it randomly. the history suggests someone imported it from badly tagged tracks in their collection
2024-08-01 21413, 2024
kepstinbrainz
Actually, looks like you'd also get "a instrumental recording" (rather than "an …") if that selection of attributes is set
2024-08-01 21414, 2024
lw
feels like it should be possible to identify the release based on the track titles though
2024-08-01 21459, 2024
lw
although the tagging is pretty... weird... like "Carolyn" is apparently supposed to be Carolan who obviously isn't the recording artist!
2024-08-01 21430, 2024
kepstinbrainz
I'm kinda curious now whether relationship link phrases are translated base on site language :)
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crism
Yeah, that is a hot mess. The original (now deleted) editor didn’t have the CDs, so Atheia only knows what that is. Could even have been a mix.
2024-08-01 21400, 2024
crism
Looks like someone applied classical style, partly; Michael Smith for “The Dutchman,” as well.
2024-08-01 21420, 2024
lw
i picked a few pairs of track titles and searches don't return any matches for both... could be some generic "celtic complication" that was released and immediately forgotton
2024-08-01 21433, 2024
lw
s/complication/compilation/
2024-08-01 21451, 2024
lw
ah, the recordings *do* have AcoustID fingerprints
oh, postie delivered some more CDs... great, more things to tag :-d
2024-08-01 21430, 2024
lw
kepstinbrainz: i think "including a" could perhaps be removed entirely, because "medley including a recording of" doesn't make sense - it's not a medley of recordings. that would render as "medley instrumental recording of"
2024-08-01 21436, 2024
lw
or "recording of {medley:a medley including}"
2024-08-01 21405, 2024
lw
then again "instrument recording of a medley including" would be odd if part of the medley has lyrics
2024-08-01 21423, 2024
lw
new CD, in shrink wrap, with marketing stickers on... and the jewel case hinge is broken
2024-08-01 21436, 2024
lw
can we not come up with a packaging format for CDs that isn't absolutely terrible?
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lw
crism: the number of tunes i'm finding entered as 'song' really convinces me we should have a new type for this
2024-08-01 21412, 2024
crism
lw: +1
2024-08-01 21438, 2024
lw
someone actually added a 'lyricist' credit for this one, which is slightly bizarre, i did check all the listed recordings and none of them have lyrics
2024-08-01 21447, 2024
lw
i wonder if that's a result of some old database change
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lw
crism: do you think it's reasonable to remove the 'cover' attribute from trad recordings? that doesn't really make any sense to me
2024-08-01 21457, 2024
crism
Yeah, I never use cover for trad. Even trad-ish things (like Stan Rogers compositions) I don’t really think of them as covers; to me, a cover is really a pop music concept.
2024-08-01 21417, 2024
lw
i am getting ear fatigue from listening to John Doherty all day, he does do interesting versions of tune but he's not my favourite fiddler to actually listen to
i added the original work and the arrangement-of relationship but i wonder if they should be merged and the arrangement-of moved to the recording
2024-08-01 21427, 2024
lw
i feel like a documentation page on 'guidelines for traditional music' might be helpful here
2024-08-01 21412, 2024
discordbrainz
<04elomatreb> lw: Separate works for arrangements are very useful for classical music, where there are often multiple well-known arrangements of popular pieces with some orchestras/performers preferring certain ones
2024-08-01 21439, 2024
discordbrainz
<04elomatreb> for less notable arrangements, you can always just link the recording to the original work and credit an arranger on the recording, not the work
2024-08-01 21409, 2024
lw
yeah, that's what i usually do, but in this case someone already added the arranged work. i suppose it doesn't do any harm to have it though
2024-08-01 21418, 2024
discordbrainz
<04elomatreb> right
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lw
although (as i said the other day) i am pretty dubious about these 'arranged by' credits on trad releases because they're mostly just a way for the label to claim copyright, not actual arrangements in a musical sense
2024-08-01 21457, 2024
lw
put them on the recordings, sure, but are they actually works...
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crism
Strictly, yes, they are works, but no one cares. I carefully arranged all the songs for my album (since I was multi-tracking, I had to plan), but unless someone decides to record exactly one of my arrangements some day, there is no reason to reify them in MusicBrainz.
2024-08-01 21406, 2024
lw
crism: do you know if Taisce Cheol Dúchais Éireann is another name for ITMA?
2024-08-01 21422, 2024
lw
internet seems to suggest yes but their website doesn't say so
2024-08-01 21449, 2024
lw
oh wait, it does in the tiny print at the bottom of the page
2024-08-01 21451, 2024
lw
okay, 7.5 hours later... one release entered into the database! + two errors on thesession.org fixed, ~20 new works entered, and one merge
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crism
Irish Traditional Music Association seems like a close translation.
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crism
!m lw
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BrainzBot
You're doing good work, lw!
2024-08-01 21405, 2024
lw
yeah, i added it as a new place with that as an alias
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crism
It does, very slowly, pay off as the intersections grow…
2024-08-01 21415, 2024
lw
it does seem a bit silly to me that MB, Alan Ng and Jeremy all have their own, separate tune databases for an extremely niche style of music
2024-08-01 21425, 2024
lw
i feel like if people had fewer philosophical differences we could save a lot of effort
2024-08-01 21453, 2024
crism
If we cross-reference the hell out of everything, then coalescence becomes possible… (I worry about one-person shows, e.g. if Alan Ng dies, what happens then?)
2024-08-01 21413, 2024
lw
yeah, that's part of what rubs me the wrong way about both of those sites... clearly Ng put a huge amount of work into that database, so why doesn't he make it publicly available?
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reosarevok[m]
People sometimes struggle to make something available because they put a huge amount of work into it 🤷♂️
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lw
i suppose. i literally cannot understand that logic though
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lw
(i'm not disagreeing with you though... i definitely see that attitude a lot, i just don't understand it :-)
