#metabrainz

the common paradigm to haskell, scala, elm...

where programming is maths and you have monads \o/

I like python (but only becasue i only know one line of code and thats how to write "hello world" in, you guessed it, python :D)

programming's easy though :P

.. I like maths :o

I just dislike the world of JS packaging

js seems.. well confusing

zas although I made changes to the win packager, I am not sure how it will work unless luks packages it and we test it out

CatQuest: well FP is all about category theory and first-class functions

as for 916, I fixed the typeErrors

js's type system makes no effing sense

it has the worse auto-casting system I

*'ve ever seen

Sp4rrowh4wk: thing is: I am a total noob, anf actually don't know what *any* of those mean

CatQuest: do yourself a favor and read this: http://learnyouahaskell.com/ < it's fun to do, challenging, you'll like it if you'll like maths and if you don't know OOP then it's for the better, 'cause you won't be held back by old habits

also, the cover is a blue elephant

which is massively cool ^^

Sp4rrowh4wk: I actually have that on the humblebook bunde whatsit. i bought it a while ago, once I get off my procrastinationass I'll read it :)

:D

CatQuest: you totally should

I'm off to buy food anyway, so good night (UGT)

natta!

what is ugt?

Universal greeting time

solves timezone conflicts: it's morning for me when I enter the chan, and evening when I leaves

oh, we used "tod" (time-of-day) but kinda stopepd because it means "death" in german afaik

it does

must've been funny ^^

anyway, yeah http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html

well i'm on.. uh (gct) (general catquest time) but that's norwegian summer time since I just stay with it isnteadof changig times but i have to do cest instead of cet becasue else i'll be late for everything for half theyear

yea we actually have conversations about time time zones here and wekidna liek thme :D

ok I promise to stop after that, but like, python: https://ptpb.pw/t/ACaRPMpwtFA4N9dqj61yx_eUYTh1 It's great to hack 20l together, but for big projects... meh it's kinda dangerous ^^

as I said, it's just because it's the only lang i even have a little expereicne with

only therefore :)

LordSputnik, iirc there was something I was supposed to do (and didn't do) so that my bb account would work right with my MeB login. Is that fixable?

[critiquebrainz] gentlecat closed pull request #75: PEP8 (master...pep8) https://git.io/vMcWQ

Sp4rrowh4wk: ping!

anshuman73: BB stuff has a separate account because we started up development again at a time when projects had separate accounts (eg. MusicBrainz was on BitBucket at the time)

we just haven't gotten around to changing that

LordSputnik: ahh. well, we could do that now ?

LordSputnik: pong!

Sp4rrowh4wk: I'm interested getting static type checking added to the BB js if that's something you're interested in :)

(me is still going through backlog, be back to the present in a moment)

CallerNo6: yes, I can fix that, could you send me a link to your BB and MB accounts?

LordSputnik: totally, I just have no idea how you would do that other then rewriting the whole thing in a typechecked language

LordSputnik: also if you're interested I can draft a doc on the differences between work/publication/edition (how I understand it at least) and after correcting it we could use it as doc (I don't mind writing doc, 'cause I don't mind writing ^^)

Sp4rrowh4wk: https://flowtype.org/

That's what I've been looking at

LordSputnik: just fell on that by googling

It's good because we can use babel (which is already part of our build) to strip out the Flow annotations and produce code which works OK

well there's support for vim, so that's a first good poing

So it should be fairly easy to set up, but I don't know how well it'll work with unannotated third party libraries

surely they've thought of that

OK, so on edition v. publicaiton v. edition, forget the word "publication" - we're replacing it with the (hopefully) less confusing "edition group"

oh

I have definitions somewhere I think...

Edition is fairly easy. It's a particular published version of some literature

yeah that ones trivial

Edition group is an abstract thing which groups editions (in some way that will hopefully evolve naturally as we grow)

and I think I got work more or less, but I had question about edge cases. e.g. different translations are a same work or not?

For now "An edition group groups editions containing similar sets of works" is probably good enough

or if we have a book and a comic is made of it, are they both deriving of the same meta-work?

For that I'd probably say they're different works, but there's a "derived" relationship between them

hmm... you have an example? Like 'anthologies' is an edition group?

Yes. If you have "XYZ Anthology of Poems", and there are multiple editions, so long as it's not a completely different anthology I'd put those under the same edition group

I guess another criteria is "if one edition claims to be a second/third/etc. edition, group it with the first edition"

Let me try to find me (reasonably OK) work definition from last year

oh right, so a book like "Aus dem Leben der Bienen" which was edited seven times would be one work, one publications and seven editions

so a modified re-edition is the same work and publication?

Possibly. For now that's the easiest thing to do, since in my MB experience it's easier to split stuff once you have information than start out with everything split and then try to merge it (see: recordings)

because I would instinctively group work -> [ 1st edition, 2nd revised edition] -> [ [list of physical different editions ] ]

with the revised editions being seperate publications but the same work

OK, my work definition isn't as great as I thought. For now I have: "Work - the raw creative output of one or more creators"

or like Tolkien's version hell

actually Tolkien is a good example: when we have several versions of the same text, and someone published both (because the author never chose one for example), should these be seperate works?

One thought I had was having subworks related to edition "chapters" or "sections". And then you could indicate which chapters and subworks a particular edition used

Sp4rrowh4wk: tricky question. We kind of need a style process and enough people interested in resolving that

Personally I'd say that the several versions should be different works

But that's just me

LordSputnik: which explains why there's no doc, 'cause its not well defined yet ^^

Yeah. So I think we just have to define it in a basic way which works for most things and then refine that later

So that people actually know what they should be doing, start editing and get interested in the project. And then we'll have enough people to start actually discussing things properly

yeah, but if you think of the Ainulindalë, there's a version in the Silmarillion and another in the book of unfinished tales, and they're the same myth, just different versions with one re-written...

but yeah I'll stay general and try to go with your 'merge first, split later' strategy

I'll have a look at flowtype, but I'm in exams until the 31st, so if I start working seriously on it it'll be afterwards

but I'm definitely interested

I always like type checking

might even look into their code, see how people write parsers in js

Sp4rrowh4wk: it's definitely going to be tricky to get good definitions. It took us six months of focused effort to get something new that was reasonable for recordings

[21:02] <Sp4rrowh4wk> actually Tolkien is a good example: when we have several versions of the same text, and someone published both (because the author never chose one for example), should these be seperate works?

and then there s the thing with translations, I have a norwegian version, all 3 books (or 6 or what was it) in one called "Ringenes Herre" andthats the translation into norwegian. of course this has been re-released several times (possibly with alterations?)

I think we need a graph xD

CatQuest: yes, there is the problem that certain editions regroup several works that are more related then just anthologies

[metabrainz.org] anshuman73 opened pull request #251: Fix more minor bugs introduced by localisation (master...translation_support) https://git.io/vMy2l

but CatQuest your case would probably simply be an edition of type anthology that contains all three works

LordSputnik: yeah...

most people today wouldconsider "ringenes herre"one "thing"

Either an anthology or a box set

So we'd definitely want a single "Lord of the Rings" work with single works for each book

Maybe also for the appendices

that's how it rn

but then there is like lovcraft's "cthulu mythos" several seperate stories, but forms a sceleton "mythos" idea or work, slowly evolving, also with other people adding to it

And then a "ringenes herre" work for the norwegian translation

CatQuest: good example. The Necronomicon is an anthology, but it's a work in itself as the compilation and commenting work needs to be recognized

I wouldn't probably make subworks for the individual norwegian books, but I don't know :/

for really old stuff. things can be re-translated into "newer" language. either a rework of the old norwegian old language like trasnaltino or a completely *noew* translation int omore modern, vernacular

LordSputnik: which is why I would simply use aliases for the translations of works

And print the tranlsator and stuff in the edition

the mao's red book, got just such an ew re-translation recently

Sp4rrowh4wk: hmm but translation is also a creative process

Like the work "LOTR" is one work, called Ringenes Herre, or Le seigneur des anneaux, or what

LordSputnik: hmmm fair enough

but then we need one work per translation

it is definitely

And for something like "The Iliad" by Homer, you might have several translations by different people at different times with various qualities

even if there are different translations to the same language

yeah

that's what we do on usicbrainz, afaik

musicbrainz*

Sp4rrowh4wk: and that's fine, I think

thinking of Beowulf as well

So long as they're related

[21:12] <LordSputnik> And for something like "The Iliad" by Homer, you might have several translations by different people at different times with various qualities

exactly

fair enough, but then different language aliases don't make sense for works

yea, i've thought of that...

like I started entering the whole H2G2 thing

is a mess of books all over the place

Sp4rrowh4wk: hmm, maybe they do

also it doesn't make sense for there eto be diff language aliases for editions etiher, since _an_ edition is like, one language's edition

and I thought it was a bug that when I search 'Le guide du ...' in french it didn't come up as a work even though I'd put the alias

It means that if someone searched for "ringenes herre", they'll also get search result for the original lord of the rings, which might be relevant to them

And stating that there is a language alias for a work isn't incorrect

LordSputnik: well that doesn't work rn

Sp4rrowh4wk: no probably not, because search only takes into account the default alias