I worked on the reviews of iliekcomputers on BU-11. And I got LB-352 reviewed today by ruaok. So I worked(still working) on the changes suggested. Some of these reviews apply to LB-367 too. So, I'll have to make changes in LB-367 too.
I haven't seen any word from CatQuest, so I assume they're not around.
2018-05-28 14854, 2018
Freso
They did send me a mail earlier with a review—but sent a later follow-up e-mail that they were going to be around anyway.
2018-05-28 14809, 2018
Freso
Anyway, since it seems like the 2nd mail wasn't correct, here's what CatQuest said:
2018-05-28 14811, 2018
Freso
"""
2018-05-28 14813, 2018
Freso
mostly I'll be doing nothing except playing in a river today :D, also nothing to report, next week will be tackling much instruments!
2018-05-28 14815, 2018
Freso
"""
2018-05-28 14827, 2018
Freso
And that's it for reviews! Thanks CatQuest and everyone!
2018-05-28 14837, 2018
Freso
ruaok: gendered speech!
2018-05-28 14840, 2018
ruaok
aight...
2018-05-28 14804, 2018
ruaok
so, I was reading some code a week ago or so and saw a comment in the code that gendered speech.
2018-05-28 14825, 2018
ruaok
what this amounts to is making references to "him or her" instead of just using "the user".
2018-05-28 14846, 2018
reosarevok
If it's easy to find and change, which I guess is grep basically, +1
2018-05-28 14852, 2018
ruaok
then I looked around a bit and of course it wasn't really balanced between the two genders.
2018-05-28 14811, 2018
ruaok
in university I was taught to alternate between the two for fairness.
2018-05-28 14825, 2018
Freso
I'm not sure we necessarily need to go through all legacy code and change it, but it would be a nice guideline going forward.
2018-05-28 14830, 2018
ruaok
but in code, that makes little sense since things move around. the whole thing seemed silly.
2018-05-28 14840, 2018
Freso
(And change it when it's come across naturally.)
2018-05-28 14805, 2018
ruaok
Freso: do you just want to finish the topic, then?
2018-05-28 14807, 2018
ruaok
:)
2018-05-28 14808, 2018
UmkaDK has quit
2018-05-28 14831, 2018
Freso
Well, if no one else has any further comments?
2018-05-28 14833, 2018
ruaok
anyways... there is no really need to use gendered language in our work.
2018-05-28 14851, 2018
ruaok
so, I propose the following new rule to apply for everything that we do.
2018-05-28 14855, 2018
ruaok
code, documentation, bugs, etc.
2018-05-28 14831, 2018
CatQuest
+1
2018-05-28 14841, 2018
Leo__Verto
I kinda agree with Freso in the sense that I don't think we necessarily have to go through all the projects and replace every pronoun. What I think would work better is to use singular they in the future, add that to the contribution guidelines and replace as code is replaced or when someone comes across it
2018-05-28 14849, 2018
ruaok
"We shall aim to avoid gendered speech whenever possible, unless we are actually talking about the topic of genders. Going forward all code comments, documentation, bugs, etc should use non-gendered speech".
2018-05-28 14850, 2018
chhavi_
It just reminds me of this thing I read. A user is rather a vague third-party term. People, is what we are making things for. Not sure how relevant it is to us though! :)
2018-05-28 14800, 2018
Freso
+1
2018-05-28 14824, 2018
ruaok
finally, when we touch a piece of code we should clean up the language as we see fit.
2018-05-28 14834, 2018
UmkaDK joined the channel
2018-05-28 14857, 2018
ruaok
so, if you see some gendered speech when doing a code-review, please point it out as needing improvement and request changes.
2018-05-28 14810, 2018
ruaok
ideally, we could do the same when talking about edit notes and so forth.
2018-05-28 14819, 2018
zas
+1
2018-05-28 14840, 2018
ruaok
no need to be harsh about it or go out of our way to rush to get this done. let's be aware and work our way there slowly and surely.
2018-05-28 14851, 2018
samj1912 didnt find any instance in picard or sir :)
2018-05-28 14851, 2018
Freso
«ideally, we could do the same when talking about edit notes and so forth.» Not sure I understand what you refer to here…?
2018-05-28 14852, 2018
ruaok
any comments, questions or objections?
2018-05-28 14816, 2018
ruaok
Freso: if someone uses gendered speech in an edit not, kindly nudge them to improve.
2018-05-28 14837, 2018
ruaok
I'll submit a PR to the CoC in the coming week to codify this as official policy.
2018-05-28 14846, 2018
reosarevok
Well, if the profile specifies the editor they're talking to or about is a male or female, then I don't see a problem?
2018-05-28 14857, 2018
Freso
So if I refer to samj1912 in an edit note, I should refer to him as they?
2018-05-28 14857, 2018
CatQuest
+1 to reosarevok
2018-05-28 14805, 2018
reosarevok
(and I assume you don't mean "Mozart wrote a lot of music, they were a very good composer" either :D )
2018-05-28 14808, 2018
ruaok
certainly not worth to call the editor on it.
2018-05-28 14810, 2018
CatQuest
respect known gender prefrences
2018-05-28 14825, 2018
ruaok
reosarevok: clearly not no.
2018-05-28 14827, 2018
reosarevok
But for something like "If an editor wants to do this he should do it this way", I guess it makes sense
2018-05-28 14835, 2018
ruaok
yes. exactly that, reosarevok.
2018-05-28 14839, 2018
reosarevok
(I try to use they there already, but :) )
2018-05-28 14841, 2018
Freso
I'm fine with that.
2018-05-28 14844, 2018
CatQuest
yep
2018-05-28 14851, 2018
ruaok
last call for objections.
2018-05-28 14852, 2018
Freso
👍 from me.
2018-05-28 14859, 2018
Leo__Verto
Sounds sensible to me
2018-05-28 14803, 2018
ruaok
motion carried. onward.
2018-05-28 14809, 2018
ruaok
finally, dropping gravatar.
2018-05-28 14814, 2018
Freso
ruaok: dropping gravata
2018-05-28 14817, 2018
Freso
Yeah.
2018-05-28 14822, 2018
CatQuest
\o/ \o/
2018-05-28 14824, 2018
ruaok
I guess, really this isn't much of a decision, but an official announcement.
2018-05-28 14824, 2018
reosarevok
You don't need to drop it, it'll cause it's own fall
2018-05-28 14832, 2018
reosarevok
Get it, because gravit-ar?
2018-05-28 14834, 2018
reosarevok shuts up
2018-05-28 14836, 2018
CatQuest
🎆🎇
2018-05-28 14843, 2018
ruaok
I'm sick of this debate, I've asked bitmap to remove gravatar support from MBS.
2018-05-28 14859, 2018
ruaok
and in the context of GDPR, it just makes sense.
2018-05-28 14805, 2018
CatQuest
♫♪♬ \o/ 🎆🎇 \o/ ♫♪♬
2018-05-28 14811, 2018
Leo__Verto
MBS uses gravatar?
2018-05-28 14825, 2018
ruaok
Leo_Verto: optional, for profiles.
2018-05-28 14827, 2018
reosarevok
Leo__Verto: for the tiny user avatars, yes
2018-05-28 14836, 2018
reosarevok
Opt-in, yeah, IIRC
2018-05-28 14854, 2018
ruaok
ok, fin.
2018-05-28 14856, 2018
ruaok
thanks Freso
2018-05-28 14810, 2018
Freso
Do we want to enable editors to upload user icons on community.meb then? (If possible, just trying to see if it is.)
2018-05-28 14824, 2018
Freso
Do we want to pull in icons from c.meb?
2018-05-28 14833, 2018
Freso
Or do we just drop user icons entirely for MB?
2018-05-28 14856, 2018
ruaok
I prefer not to have any at all.
2018-05-28 14858, 2018
Leo__Verto
Drop first, ask questions later :P
2018-05-28 14802, 2018
CatQuest
if possible, pull form com i say. sicne thne it's easier ot recognise peope ltoo
2018-05-28 14808, 2018
Freso
Looks like it's already possible on c.meb to upload custom avatars there.
2018-05-28 14810, 2018
reosarevok
I'd like to get them from discourse if we can
2018-05-28 14815, 2018
CatQuest
+1
2018-05-28 14815, 2018
ruaok
storing images is not only a pain,but opens us to spam/porn and other shit.
2018-05-28 14817, 2018
reosarevok
But it's not high priority
2018-05-28 14824, 2018
CatQuest
+1 too
2018-05-28 14837, 2018
ruaok
if we have the capability already fine, then we might as well use it
2018-05-28 14845, 2018
ruaok
but we should not write a feature to support that.
2018-05-28 14845, 2018
CatQuest
spam and porn images are clearly against toc and coc so
2018-05-28 14850, 2018
Leo__Verto
Our current MBS design also doesn't really use avatars anywhere outside of profile pages, does it?
2018-05-28 14859, 2018
ruaok
CatQuest: yes, but we don't need another thing to enforce.
2018-05-28 14807, 2018
Leo__Verto
also upload filters…
2018-05-28 14824, 2018
Freso
Leo__Verto: In edits/edit notes, I believe.
2018-05-28 14839, 2018
reosarevok
In edit notes in tiny tiny size
2018-05-28 14855, 2018
CatQuest
chhavi could chip in with redesign ideas here
2018-05-28 14855, 2018
reosarevok
Still kinda useful to figure out who someone is very quickly, but not too important
2018-05-28 14859, 2018
Leo__Verto
oh yeah, no one's going to notice if we remove that
2018-05-28 14800, 2018
CatQuest
ineed
2018-05-28 14801, 2018
Freso
Okay, so if someone wants to, they can make an MBS ticket to pull in avatars from c.meb, but otherwise, gravatar is just going to get removed.
2018-05-28 14808, 2018
chhavi_
yep, we have not reached profile pages yet!
2018-05-28 14809, 2018
CatQuest
+1
2018-05-28 14812, 2018
Freso
Alright.
2018-05-28 14819, 2018
Freso
ruaok: Does that sound sane?
2018-05-28 14821, 2018
CatQuest
remove for noq, thne see maybe later
2018-05-28 14834, 2018
CatQuest
remove for now, then let's see maybe later
2018-05-28 14852, 2018
ruaok
gravar gone immediately.
2018-05-28 14800, 2018
ruaok
everything else doesn't really matter much to me.
2018-05-28 14804, 2018
CatQuest
♫♪♬ \o/ 🎆🎇 \o/ ♫♪♬
2018-05-28 14806, 2018
Freso
Okay.
2018-05-28 14813, 2018
Freso
I guess that's a wrap then.
2018-05-28 14821, 2018
Freso
Thanks for your time everyone!
2018-05-28 14824, 2018
Freso
</BANG>
2018-05-28 14824, 2018
CatQuest
(sorry this makes me very happy :D)
2018-05-28 14831, 2018
CatQuest
thank you freso!
2018-05-28 14821, 2018
reosarevok makes that ticket
2018-05-28 14834, 2018
CatQuest
link me
2018-05-28 14847, 2018
samj1912
reosarevok: back to releases?
2018-05-28 14852, 2018
CatQuest
hah
2018-05-28 14853, 2018
kartikeyaSh
ruaok: can you give me something on the questions i asked in LB-367 ??
