You can just add your string on line 30 and hit run
2015-12-27 36117, 2015
CallerNo6
opatel99, what am I testing for? That it follows MB's guidelines?
2015-12-27 36109, 2015
opatel99
CallerNo6: Aside from the guidelines, that it works based on common sense.
2015-12-27 36143, 2015
CallerNo6
Oh. Well, I know I can break it then, because I already know how hard a problem this is to solve (more or less)
2015-12-27 36149, 2015
opatel99
Well not `common sense`, but that it follows general name sorting. (This is to be used on just authors)
2015-12-27 36141, 2015
opatel99
CallerNo6: It is inevitable that this problem can never be fully solved, but to a general degree it could make it easier for many people under many cases.
2015-12-27 36110, 2015
CallerNo6
Okay, I can tell you right off that the mr/mrs/dr part doesn't make sense to me :-)
2015-12-27 36106, 2015
CallerNo6
People get degrees, or promotions, or titles all the time. That should change where they are in a collated list.
2015-12-27 36120, 2015
CallerNo6
(IMO, anyway)
2015-12-27 36146, 2015
opatel99
Oh those variables aren't even properly used yet. You mean should or shouldnt?
2015-12-27 36100, 2015
CallerNo6
And if two people are named Phil McGraw, I'd expect them to sort adjacent to one another even if only one is a doctor.
2015-12-27 36140, 2015
CallerNo6
oops, "shouldn't"!
2015-12-27 36129, 2015
opatel99
Currently, their last names would be adjacent, but Dr. would bump one phil higher than the other
2015-12-27 36101, 2015
CallerNo6
Sure, but in a long list they'd be separated by lots of other people.
2015-12-27 36112, 2015
CallerNo6
(if those people were also called McGraw)
2015-12-27 36156, 2015
CallerNo6
tl;dr, I think titles, honorifics etc should be omitted or put at the end.
2015-12-27 36138, 2015
dr_saunde has quit
2015-12-27 36145, 2015
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2015-12-27 36135, 2015
CallerNo6
Oh, sorry, I hadn't actually looked at the script. I guess you /are/ planning to special-case at least some titles/honorifics
2015-12-27 36128, 2015
opatel99
CallerNo6: That would be dependent on Sort guidelines for Books
2015-12-27 36152, 2015
CallerNo6
Okay. That could become a pretty long list :-)
2015-12-27 36111, 2015
CallerNo6
I feel like in a perfect world, artist names would be split into parts in the db.
2015-12-27 36114, 2015
opatel99
Honestly I think titles should be removed for authors
2015-12-27 36122, 2015
CallerNo6
(where "parts" are e.g. "given name", "family name")
2015-12-27 36151, 2015
chirlu` wonders whether BB has an own style mailing list that is hosted somewhere else.
2015-12-27 36111, 2015
chirlu`
Also, the whole point of having sort names is that they *cannot* be automatically determined based on the name alone in all cases.
2015-12-27 36136, 2015
chirlu`
If they could, we’d just store the name and calculate the sort name when it is needed.
2015-12-27 36156, 2015
CallerNo6
like I said, I'm skeptical :-)
2015-12-27 36119, 2015
CallerNo6
But I think it'd be much closer to possible if we split names into parts.
2015-12-27 36133, 2015
opatel99
Okay. How about this. Does https://repl.it/Bact/21 resolve the current situation we have for guessing author names? CallerNo6 Would it be difficult to post-refactor all of the names?
2015-12-27 36110, 2015
CallerNo6
are you going to make me google (er, DDG) "post-refactor"? fine, be that way.
2015-12-27 36132, 2015
opatel99
That is probably not even a word. Post-change
2015-12-27 36148, 2015
opatel99
Change after adding.
2015-12-27 36116, 2015
CallerNo6
if it means something, I think it's a perfectly cromulent word.
2015-12-27 36144, 2015
chirlu`
Disregarding these titles etc., there is simply no way an algorithm or a person can correctly guess whether “A B C” is a Ms B C with first name A or a Ms C with first names A B.
That’s how the sort name stores additional knowledge.
2015-12-27 36126, 2015
opatel99
Of course, it is not completely possible, but I just want the basics to work.
2015-12-27 36129, 2015
CallerNo6
That's the thing, I don't think it can every work well enough to be better than an empty field.
2015-12-27 36143, 2015
CallerNo6
I mean, at least you can search for the empty field and fix it.
2015-12-27 36155, 2015
opatel99
So just drop the task?
2015-12-27 36120, 2015
CallerNo6
But as an exercise, if you're into it, I'll talk about it all night.
2015-12-27 36122, 2015
CallerNo6
You'd need to know if e.g. "Van Halen" is one name or two, if Gabriel García Márquez has a middle name, if a Japanese name is being presented family name first or last.
2015-12-27 36144, 2015
CallerNo6
It's a really tough problem.
2015-12-27 36131, 2015
chirlu`
Well, as the MB Guess Case function shows, it can save a lot of typing even if it is only right in 80% of all cases.
2015-12-27 36156, 2015
CallerNo6
But then the incorrect 20% is harder to find, when it could have simply been left blank.
2015-12-27 36154, 2015
CallerNo6
oh, "guess case"? no opinion.
2015-12-27 36110, 2015
chirlu`
Yes, it’s a good tool only in the hands of those editors who know what the sort name should be and manually enter it where guess sort name fails.
2015-12-27 36118, 2015
chirlu`
I meant the sort-name guessing.
2015-12-27 36147, 2015
opatel99
So... What do I do?
2015-12-27 36102, 2015
CallerNo6
how did you get your self into this?
2015-12-27 36118, 2015
CallerNo6
was it, "oh, that looks doable!"?
2015-12-27 36140, 2015
opatel99
I don't really look at doable or not before choosing my task
2015-12-27 36103, 2015
CallerNo6
ah, it was on the task list already?
2015-12-27 36109, 2015
opatel99
Seemed useful. Wow it could make it easier and more organized for editors
2015-12-27 36123, 2015
opatel99
Well I claimed it
2015-12-27 36150, 2015
CallerNo6
Okay, hmm, my suggestion is: ask Mr. Most or Mr. Sputnik how well they want this to work.
2015-12-27 36103, 2015
CallerNo6
If they're happy with the way MB works, duplicate that.
2015-12-27 36114, 2015
CallerNo6
If they want it to be, as chirlu` says, a keystroke-saver for editors who already know what they're doing, then maybe make that clear.
2015-12-27 36103, 2015
CallerNo6
whoa, what's going on in version 21? I got a lot of "undefined"
CallerNo6: In your favor: Do not list titles (Dr., Sir, Saint, etc.) or degrees (PhD, MA, DDS, etc.) with names. - Purdue OWL (Pretty much the definers of MLA book citation)
2015-12-27 36146, 2015
CallerNo6
exactly, I'd much rather follow MLA where possible
2015-12-27 36158, 2015
CallerNo6
(or similar authorities)
2015-12-27 36118, 2015
opatel99
What about Dr. Seuss? Is that an acceptable alias?
2015-12-27 36107, 2015
CallerNo6
Probably? That's the sort of thing where I'd follow convention. How have libraries done it historically?
2015-12-27 36138, 2015
CallerNo6
(same with Mark Twain)
2015-12-27 36112, 2015
opatel99
My library puts Seuss under the G's for Geisel
2015-12-27 36104, 2015
CallerNo6
huh. I wonder if that's a holdover from card catalogs.
2015-12-27 36132, 2015
CallerNo6
Oh, do you mean sorted under "G" on the shelf?
2015-12-27 36135, 2015
opatel99
yeah
2015-12-27 36102, 2015
CallerNo6
Yeah, definitely a holdover from the limitations of physical libraries.
I wouldn't switch tasks yet - do that just before the guideline is approved
2015-12-27 36116, 2015
opatel99
LordSputnik: 3 instances .. Is that ok?
2015-12-27 36112, 2015
LordSputnik
I'm going to change it to 1 now
2015-12-27 36116, 2015
opatel99
Also: When no new changes have been made to the guideline document for a week, the Style Committee decide whether approve the guideline and make any necessary modifications, or reject it for some good reason.
2015-12-27 36123, 2015
opatel99
So that task will take one week?
2015-12-27 36102, 2015
LordSputnik
You can run it in the background while you complete other tasks
2015-12-27 36112, 2015
opatel99
Ok
2015-12-27 36150, 2015
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2015-12-27 36158, 2015
opatel99
LordSputnik: I was able to run the link above by putting my phone in landscape mode
2015-12-27 36158, 2015
LordSputnik
I'll keep 2 instances for now in case someone claims it without asking first
the thing is that nginx generates an error due to invalid headers (they arent supposed to contain nul bytes)
2015-12-27 36132, 2015
zas
client <-> proxy <-> search server : since search server send invalid header, proxy generates an error, and client never see the search server (invalid) answer, therefore not aware of the rate limit, and retries
2015-12-27 36103, 2015
zas
the last part needs to be confirmed but the full testing is a bit complex to set up
