where programming is maths and you have monads \o/
2017-01-19 01940, 2017
CatQuest
I like python (but only becasue i only know one line of code and thats how to write "hello world" in, you guessed it, python :D)
2017-01-19 01952, 2017
Leo_Verto
programming's easy though :P
2017-01-19 01955, 2017
CatQuest
.. I like maths :o
2017-01-19 01906, 2017
Leo_Verto
I just dislike the world of JS packaging
2017-01-19 01915, 2017
CatQuest
js seems.. well confusing
2017-01-19 01918, 2017
samj1912
zas although I made changes to the win packager, I am not sure how it will work unless luks packages it and we test it out
2017-01-19 01931, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
CatQuest: well FP is all about category theory and first-class functions
2017-01-19 01938, 2017
samj1912
as for 916, I fixed the typeErrors
2017-01-19 01942, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
js's type system makes no effing sense
2017-01-19 01901, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
it has the worse auto-casting system I
2017-01-19 01905, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
*'ve ever seen
2017-01-19 01917, 2017
CatQuest
Sp4rrowh4wk: thing is: I am a total noob, anf actually don't know what *any* of those mean
2017-01-19 01938, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
CatQuest: do yourself a favor and read this: http://learnyouahaskell.com/ < it's fun to do, challenging, you'll like it if you'll like maths and if you don't know OOP then it's for the better, 'cause you won't be held back by old habits
2017-01-19 01945, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
also, the cover is a blue elephant
2017-01-19 01956, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
which is massively cool ^^
2017-01-19 01920, 2017
CatQuest
Sp4rrowh4wk: I actually have that on the humblebook bunde whatsit. i bought it a while ago, once I get off my procrastinationass I'll read it :)
2017-01-19 01934, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk ends here his haskell evangelization and leaves yall to your daily tasks ^^
2017-01-19 01939, 2017
CatQuest
:D
2017-01-19 01941, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
CatQuest: you totally should
2017-01-19 01905, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
I'm off to buy food anyway, so good night (UGT)
2017-01-19 01912, 2017
CatQuest
natta!
2017-01-19 01916, 2017
CatQuest
what is ugt?
2017-01-19 01901, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
Universal greeting time
2017-01-19 01916, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
solves timezone conflicts: it's morning for me when I enter the chan, and evening when I leaves
2017-01-19 01932, 2017
CatQuest
oh, we used "tod" (time-of-day) but kinda stopepd because it means "death" in german afaik
well i'm on.. uh (gct) (general catquest time) but that's norwegian summer time since I just stay with it isnteadof changig times but i have to do cest instead of cet becasue else i'll be late for everything for half theyear
2017-01-19 01922, 2017
CatQuest
yea we actually have conversations about time time zones here and wekidna liek thme :D
[critiquebrainz] gentlecat closed pull request #78: Move review count and user count to models. (master...moveMethodstoModel) https://git.io/vMXl5
2017-01-19 01906, 2017
github has left the channel
2017-01-19 01916, 2017
LordSputnik
anshuman73: BB stuff has a separate account because we started up development again at a time when projects had separate accounts (eg. MusicBrainz was on BitBucket at the time)
2017-01-19 01931, 2017
LordSputnik
we just haven't gotten around to changing that
2017-01-19 01908, 2017
anshuman73
LordSputnik: ahh. well, we could do that now ?
2017-01-19 01928, 2017
anshuman73 wonders how easy/hard it is to save all git history
2017-01-19 01929, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
LordSputnik: pong!
2017-01-19 01926, 2017
LordSputnik
Sp4rrowh4wk: I'm interested getting static type checking added to the BB js if that's something you're interested in :)
2017-01-19 01938, 2017
LordSputnik
(me is still going through backlog, be back to the present in a moment)
2017-01-19 01916, 2017
LordSputnik
CallerNo6: yes, I can fix that, could you send me a link to your BB and MB accounts?
2017-01-19 01922, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
LordSputnik: totally, I just have no idea how you would do that other then rewriting the whole thing in a typechecked language
2017-01-19 01946, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
LordSputnik: also if you're interested I can draft a doc on the differences between work/publication/edition (how I understand it at least) and after correcting it we could use it as doc (I don't mind writing doc, 'cause I don't mind writing ^^)
It's good because we can use babel (which is already part of our build) to strip out the Flow annotations and produce code which works OK
2017-01-19 01921, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
well there's support for vim, so that's a first good poing
2017-01-19 01951, 2017
LordSputnik
So it should be fairly easy to set up, but I don't know how well it'll work with unannotated third party libraries
2017-01-19 01906, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
surely they've thought of that
2017-01-19 01916, 2017
LordSputnik
OK, so on edition v. publicaiton v. edition, forget the word "publication" - we're replacing it with the (hopefully) less confusing "edition group"
2017-01-19 01930, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
oh
2017-01-19 01931, 2017
LordSputnik
I have definitions somewhere I think...
2017-01-19 01908, 2017
LordSputnik
Edition is fairly easy. It's a particular published version of some literature
2017-01-19 01925, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
yeah that ones trivial
2017-01-19 01939, 2017
LordSputnik
Edition group is an abstract thing which groups editions (in some way that will hopefully evolve naturally as we grow)
2017-01-19 01949, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
and I think I got work more or less, but I had question about edge cases. e.g. different translations are a same work or not?
2017-01-19 01913, 2017
LordSputnik
For now "An edition group groups editions containing similar sets of works" is probably good enough
2017-01-19 01915, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
or if we have a book and a comic is made of it, are they both deriving of the same meta-work?
2017-01-19 01948, 2017
LordSputnik
For that I'd probably say they're different works, but there's a "derived" relationship between them
2017-01-19 01949, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
hmm... you have an example? Like 'anthologies' is an edition group?
2017-01-19 01920, 2017
LordSputnik
Yes. If you have "XYZ Anthology of Poems", and there are multiple editions, so long as it's not a completely different anthology I'd put those under the same edition group
2017-01-19 01905, 2017
LordSputnik
I guess another criteria is "if one edition claims to be a second/third/etc. edition, group it with the first edition"
2017-01-19 01928, 2017
LordSputnik
Let me try to find me (reasonably OK) work definition from last year
2017-01-19 01954, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
oh right, so a book like "Aus dem Leben der Bienen" which was edited seven times would be one work, one publications and seven editions
2017-01-19 01908, 2017
psolanki joined the channel
2017-01-19 01919, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
so a modified re-edition is the same work and publication?
2017-01-19 01913, 2017
LordSputnik
Possibly. For now that's the easiest thing to do, since in my MB experience it's easier to split stuff once you have information than start out with everything split and then try to merge it (see: recordings)
2017-01-19 01929, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
because I would instinctively group work -> [ 1st edition, 2nd revised edition] -> [ [list of physical different editions ] ]
2017-01-19 01941, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
with the revised editions being seperate publications but the same work
2017-01-19 01945, 2017
LordSputnik
OK, my work definition isn't as great as I thought. For now I have: "Work - the raw creative output of one or more creators"
2017-01-19 01947, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
or like Tolkien's version hell
2017-01-19 01932, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
actually Tolkien is a good example: when we have several versions of the same text, and someone published both (because the author never chose one for example), should these be seperate works?
2017-01-19 01939, 2017
LordSputnik
One thought I had was having subworks related to edition "chapters" or "sections". And then you could indicate which chapters and subworks a particular edition used
2017-01-19 01911, 2017
LordSputnik
Sp4rrowh4wk: tricky question. We kind of need a style process and enough people interested in resolving that
2017-01-19 01926, 2017
LordSputnik
Personally I'd say that the several versions should be different works
2017-01-19 01931, 2017
LordSputnik
But that's just me
2017-01-19 01933, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
LordSputnik: which explains why there's no doc, 'cause its not well defined yet ^^
2017-01-19 01902, 2017
LordSputnik
Yeah. So I think we just have to define it in a basic way which works for most things and then refine that later
2017-01-19 01928, 2017
LordSputnik
So that people actually know what they should be doing, start editing and get interested in the project. And then we'll have enough people to start actually discussing things properly
2017-01-19 01950, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
yeah, but if you think of the Ainulindalë, there's a version in the Silmarillion and another in the book of unfinished tales, and they're the same myth, just different versions with one re-written...
2017-01-19 01911, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
but yeah I'll stay general and try to go with your 'merge first, split later' strategy
2017-01-19 01939, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
I'll have a look at flowtype, but I'm in exams until the 31st, so if I start working seriously on it it'll be afterwards
2017-01-19 01947, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
but I'm definitely interested
2017-01-19 01954, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
I always like type checking
2017-01-19 01909, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
might even look into their code, see how people write parsers in js
2017-01-19 01917, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk shudders at that thought
2017-01-19 01941, 2017
LordSputnik
Sp4rrowh4wk: it's definitely going to be tricky to get good definitions. It took us six months of focused effort to get something new that was reasonable for recordings
2017-01-19 01956, 2017
CatQuest
[21:02] <Sp4rrowh4wk> actually Tolkien is a good example: when we have several versions of the same text, and someone published both (because the author never chose one for example), should these be seperate works?
2017-01-19 01956, 2017
CatQuest
and then there s the thing with translations, I have a norwegian version, all 3 books (or 6 or what was it) in one called "Ringenes Herre" andthats the translation into norwegian. of course this has been re-released several times (possibly with alterations?)
2017-01-19 01916, 2017
LordSputnik
I think we need a graph xD
2017-01-19 01934, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
CatQuest: yes, there is the problem that certain editions regroup several works that are more related then just anthologies
2017-01-19 01944, 2017
github joined the channel
2017-01-19 01944, 2017
github
[metabrainz.org] anshuman73 opened pull request #251: Fix more minor bugs introduced by localisation (master...translation_support) https://git.io/vMy2l
2017-01-19 01944, 2017
github has left the channel
2017-01-19 01924, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
but CatQuest your case would probably simply be an edition of type anthology that contains all three works
2017-01-19 01933, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
LordSputnik: yeah...
2017-01-19 01950, 2017
CatQuest
most people today wouldconsider "ringenes herre"one "thing"
2017-01-19 01900, 2017
LordSputnik
Either an anthology or a box set
2017-01-19 01921, 2017
LordSputnik
So we'd definitely want a single "Lord of the Rings" work with single works for each book
2017-01-19 01932, 2017
LordSputnik
Maybe also for the appendices
2017-01-19 01946, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
that's how it rn
2017-01-19 01947, 2017
CatQuest
but then there is like lovcraft's "cthulu mythos" several seperate stories, but forms a sceleton "mythos" idea or work, slowly evolving, also with other people adding to it
2017-01-19 01902, 2017
LordSputnik
And then a "ringenes herre" work for the norwegian translation
2017-01-19 01926, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
CatQuest: good example. The Necronomicon is an anthology, but it's a work in itself as the compilation and commenting work needs to be recognized
2017-01-19 01932, 2017
LordSputnik
I wouldn't probably make subworks for the individual norwegian books, but I don't know :/
2017-01-19 01954, 2017
CatQuest
for really old stuff. things can be re-translated into "newer" language. either a rework of the old norwegian old language like trasnaltino or a completely *noew* translation int omore modern, vernacular
2017-01-19 01957, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
LordSputnik: which is why I would simply use aliases for the translations of works
2017-01-19 01905, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
And print the tranlsator and stuff in the edition
2017-01-19 01911, 2017
CatQuest
the mao's red book, got just such an ew re-translation recently
2017-01-19 01925, 2017
LordSputnik
Sp4rrowh4wk: hmm but translation is also a creative process
2017-01-19 01934, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
Like the work "LOTR" is one work, called Ringenes Herre, or Le seigneur des anneaux, or what
2017-01-19 01935, 2017
JonnyJD joined the channel
2017-01-19 01942, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
LordSputnik: hmmm fair enough
2017-01-19 01950, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
but then we need one work per translation
2017-01-19 01951, 2017
CatQuest
it is definitely
2017-01-19 01958, 2017
LordSputnik
And for something like "The Iliad" by Homer, you might have several translations by different people at different times with various qualities
2017-01-19 01902, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
even if there are different translations to the same language
2017-01-19 01905, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
yeah
2017-01-19 01906, 2017
CatQuest
that's what we do on usicbrainz, afaik
2017-01-19 01910, 2017
CatQuest
musicbrainz*
2017-01-19 01914, 2017
LordSputnik
Sp4rrowh4wk: and that's fine, I think
2017-01-19 01916, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
thinking of Beowulf as well
2017-01-19 01920, 2017
LordSputnik
So long as they're related
2017-01-19 01925, 2017
CatQuest
[21:12] <LordSputnik> And for something like "The Iliad" by Homer, you might have several translations by different people at different times with various qualities
2017-01-19 01926, 2017
CatQuest
exactly
2017-01-19 01932, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
fair enough, but then different language aliases don't make sense for works
2017-01-19 01943, 2017
CatQuest
yea, i've thought of that...
2017-01-19 01954, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
like I started entering the whole H2G2 thing
2017-01-19 01901, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
is a mess of books all over the place
2017-01-19 01901, 2017
LordSputnik
Sp4rrowh4wk: hmm, maybe they do
2017-01-19 01905, 2017
CatQuest
also it doesn't make sense for there eto be diff language aliases for editions etiher, since _an_ edition is like, one language's edition
2017-01-19 01925, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
and I thought it was a bug that when I search 'Le guide du ...' in french it didn't come up as a work even though I'd put the alias
2017-01-19 01929, 2017
LordSputnik
It means that if someone searched for "ringenes herre", they'll also get search result for the original lord of the rings, which might be relevant to them
2017-01-19 01945, 2017
LordSputnik
And stating that there is a language alias for a work isn't incorrect
2017-01-19 01946, 2017
Sp4rrowh4wk
LordSputnik: well that doesn't work rn
2017-01-19 01902, 2017
LordSputnik
Sp4rrowh4wk: no probably not, because search only takes into account the default alias
