IMO, if it's a community project then members should get to decide if something is "wrong", i.e. have a report button or something.
2023-03-09 06804, 2023
MrigeshThakur
monkey could we perhaps take help of other orgs like bb who keep a record of books ?
2023-03-09 06855, 2023
monkey
You could potentially have semi-automated validation, meaning checking for the user and helping them identify data that is different in other websites/databases, but I do'nt see it working reliably for fully automated validation
2023-03-09 06828, 2023
monkey
Mainly for the same issue: what if I'm adding a book that isn't on amazon or openlibrary or goodreads?
2023-03-09 06858, 2023
MrigeshThakur
Yup the disparity remains
2023-03-09 06814, 2023
MrigeshThakur
Does Wikipedia also works on the same stature , like is the info their too left for users to check and validate for ?
2023-03-09 06830, 2023
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2023-03-09 06839, 2023
monkey
Yes
2023-03-09 06833, 2023
MrigeshThakur
hmm , alright last one '=D (sorry to keep nudging you with these ideas ) what about the publication , we could validate that ??
2023-03-09 06840, 2023
monkey
No worries, I'm here to answer questions :) What do you mean by publication?
2023-03-09 06830, 2023
MrigeshThakur
I am talking about the publication company that published that book
2023-03-09 06852, 2023
monkey
Ah, the publisher. What would you want to validate?
2023-03-09 06806, 2023
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2023-03-09 06801, 2023
MrigeshThakur
if that publisher really exists or not , I am now trying to get that we could not totally automate the process there needs to be some level of human curation, so instead of having a perfect validation , we could aim for validation that removes those books from the db that are totally bogus , I mean like if a user spams non existing books , just to
2023-03-09 06802, 2023
MrigeshThakur
tamper with the db
2023-03-09 06800, 2023
MrigeshThakur
That we could tell by having these lines of simple checks , or is it even necessary at all?
2023-03-09 06831, 2023
monkey
I don't think it is. Bogus users will be reported, and then we can investigate their revisions and undo the damage
2023-03-09 06834, 2023
MrigeshThakur
Alrightttt...
2023-03-09 06827, 2023
monkey
From my point of view there are many interesting things to do with the help of AI, but I think this type of validation is best left in the capable hands of a human community, and efforts should focus on making their job easier
2023-03-09 06834, 2023
MrigeshThakur
Yep, I myself have been addicted to chatgpt , got all my college proposals ( for our college tech fest) getting corrected and formatted from it '=D
I agree that AI can potentially help humans make decisions. I have doubts it can be used reliably in an automated context. I can get ChatGPT to make statements that are totally untrue. My sense of it is, a conversational AI may not make the best curation decisions about bibligraphic content. Other types of AI, trained on our and other data, could
2023-03-09 06818, 2023
pbryan
potentially be used to detect anomalies or inconsistencies with other reliable data sets, which editors could then inspect and make decisions about correcting.
2023-03-09 06800, 2023
MrigeshThakur
yup true
2023-03-09 06852, 2023
MrigeshThakur
so on a side note, how long do you guys code per day, and after how many hours does that feeling of not being able to understand even a simple function begin to hit'=D
2023-03-09 06807, 2023
monkey
The amount of coding depends, I have to spend a fair amount of time reviewing PRs and generally managing the project, not necessarily coding.
2023-03-09 06807, 2023
monkey
But after 8 hours of full-on coding my brain starts to lose grasp on reality XD
2023-03-09 06808, 2023
pbryan
In a typical day, I can go about 8 hours. But if I'm on a roll, that can extend to 12. In my younger days, even more. It's not constant.
2023-03-09 06833, 2023
pbryan
Don't expect continuous, constant output.
2023-03-09 06844, 2023
monkey
That being said, these days 8 hours of solid coding would be spent on heavy complicated refactoring, so that puts the limit pretty low.
2023-03-09 06814, 2023
monkey
But it's somehow MORE tiring to move between reviewing 8 different PRs
2023-03-09 06825, 2023
monkey
Context switching takes a toll
2023-03-09 06809, 2023
pbryan
A lot of time goes into thinking about how to implement (i.e. design), so as to be applicable to the case at hand and have flexibility or extensibility. Design goes a long way to avoid invasive refactoring later. But it's a balancing act too. You need to get the job done, while not incurring too much tech debt.
2023-03-09 06832, 2023
pbryan
And, yeah, monkey, ding. Context swiching. Meetings. Working on different tasks. Ouch.
2023-03-09 06805, 2023
pbryan
PR reviews! Talk about context switching. Not conducive to heads-down coding.
2023-03-09 06834, 2023
kellnerd
> You did mention some ORM work for example which would make for a quite consistent self-contained project.
2023-03-09 06835, 2023
kellnerd
To which of my three approaches was that referring, monkey? 1) refactoring to use Bookshelf's class syntax, 2) migrating to a TS ORM, 3) creating stand-alone type definitions as needed?
2023-03-09 06857, 2023
monkey
Well, I meant the general idea of improving the ORM, as in those three ideas
2023-03-09 06839, 2023
monkey
Although I think 2) would be ideal, considering the faint pulse of bookshelf
2023-03-09 06807, 2023
kellnerd
Not saying I want to propose one of these rather boring tasks as a project, but I'm happy to help getting this done outside of GSoC (once we've agreed which approach is the best for BB).
2023-03-09 06858, 2023
monkey
I think that somehow goes hand in hand with the "self-contained" aspect: No interactions with other parts of the website, just straight up code refactoring. This type of refactoring is up some people's alley, but yep, I also agree it's quite boring :D
2023-03-09 06814, 2023
G0maa
refactor to use django to get more developers abroad :see-no-evil:
2023-03-09 06819, 2023
monkey
But as you say, the first part would be identifying which approach would strike the right one
2023-03-09 06859, 2023
monkey
Hah, G0maa you would be surprised at how many participants get interested in BookBrainz over other MetaBrainz projects *specifically* becuase it is JS based
2023-03-09 06822, 2023
kellnerd
Next I would try to convert one model by hand before I'll write a script that does the most repetitive parts for all other models :)
2023-03-09 06823, 2023
kellnerd
Maybe even a script that generates models directly from bookbrainz.sql and the human only has to copy in the additional parts from the old Bookshelf models.
2023-03-09 06845, 2023
MrigeshThakur
while being on the same topic monkey when bb was created did you ever think of using a no SQL db or was it decided before to keep the db consistent between various metabrainz projects
2023-03-09 06843, 2023
monkey
The latter. I wasn't there at the beginning of the project, but SQL just makes sense for these types of projects
2023-03-09 06820, 2023
monkey
Very structured data, a focus on reliability of transactions
2023-03-09 06839, 2023
MrigeshThakur
hmmm
2023-03-09 06801, 2023
G0maa
monkey: :O, I mean that is true, because I mainly searched the 172 orgs for a NodeJS backend focused project idea... the ones that were kind of up my ally were ~3, BB is one of them :D So to reply to an old message of yours I might do as you said and propose a project to BB anyway... depending on the circumstances.
2023-03-09 06801, 2023
MrigeshThakur
G0maa did you look into the importing the db project , the one other than the admin panel listed on site
I'd have to dig into the data model to try to describe what is superfluous about it. I suspect you know the issue.
2023-03-09 06818, 2023
monkey
Yes, I can answer on the ticket
2023-03-09 06839, 2023
pbryan
Thanks.
2023-03-09 06855, 2023
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2023-03-09 06853, 2023
ZaphodBeeblebrox
[15:24] <monkey> You could potentially have semi-automated validation, meaning checking for the user and helping them identify data that is different in other websites/databases, but I do'nt see it working reliably for fully automated validation
2023-03-09 06853, 2023
ZaphodBeeblebrox
sounds like userscript potential
2023-03-09 06847, 2023
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2023-03-09 06819, 2023
ZaphodBeeblebrox
[15:42] <monkey> From my point of view there are many interesting things to do with the help of AI, but I think this type of validation is best left in the capable hands of a human community, and efforts should focus on making their job easier
2023-03-09 06819, 2023
ZaphodBeeblebrox
+100%
2023-03-09 06801, 2023
ZaphodBeeblebrox
oh lol, G0maa should be interested in knowing how many languages BB went through before we settled on Js
2023-03-09 06801, 2023
ZaphodBeeblebrox
for example HASKELL
2023-03-09 06838, 2023
kellnerd
Interesting, I didn't know that :O
2023-03-09 06801, 2023
ZaphodBeeblebrox
:D
2023-03-09 06834, 2023
ZaphodBeeblebrox
can tall to benochmore(lordsputnik) and Leftmost about it. also that guy who's name escapes me that als ostarted with "b"
2023-03-09 06809, 2023
ZaphodBeeblebrox
s/tall/talk/
2023-03-09 06844, 2023
ZaphodBeeblebrox
he did tht mb-user sruvey osme years ago (that I *still* have not see nthe results from *grumble*)
2023-03-09 06809, 2023
MrigeshThakur
monkey regarding BB-718. as we only want to check if the user is logged into the critique brainz acc only when he hits the add review button , so can I add an event listener to the button call and call the getaccessToken function only then?
we want to do it when she or they do it though tbh :P
2023-03-09 06813, 2023
ZaphodBeeblebrox
as well*
2023-03-09 06810, 2023
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2023-03-09 06844, 2023
G0maa
I didn't put too much effort into BB yet, but I saw ORM being mentioned above, I can help in that using Sequelize.
2023-03-09 06835, 2023
monkey
MrigeshThakur : I'm worried that could make for a bad user experience if they wrote a review but can't post it straight away. Could even potentially lose their review text if we navigate away or something goes wrong, which I could see being frustraring
