Is there any documentation on this new (at least I think it's new) "Users similar to you" thing?
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aereaux
(On listenbrainz)
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outsidecontext
derwin: If I look at the people who actually voted their accounts are around for a while, and most have done their editing. I agree that they should have asked here or on the forums, though.
2021-06-22 17342, 2021
outsidecontext
derwin: anyway, instead of actually just arguing about the way people started the discussion it would be great to have some actual discussion about the issue at hand and how to best handle this data in MB.
oh well. the chrome version running there is likely also not a current one, but just the newest still running on macOS 10.7
2021-06-22 17317, 2021
CatQuest
exactly, the newest one available to me
2021-06-22 17344, 2021
CatQuest
the most upatable(in mac os 10.7.5)
2021-06-22 17337, 2021
outsidecontext
don't think zas could do much about that. if anything that would be need to be fixed in Discourse, but they probably have no interest at supporting browsers this old :(
2021-06-22 17349, 2021
CatQuest
ehk, yes
2021-06-22 17330, 2021
outsidecontext
any chance you'll get a newer computer?
2021-06-22 17326, 2021
CatQuest
actually I am waiting to get a vaccine so i can feel comfortable getting t oa computer store and stuff to get a new machine (becasue this one is having a sata disc fault anyway) and in the new machine i plan on trying linux finally
2021-06-22 17329, 2021
CatQuest
:DD
2021-06-22 17322, 2021
outsidecontext
:D good move. and good luck with the vaccine, I'm still only on the waiting lists
2021-06-22 17300, 2021
outsidecontext
about the transgender discussion: I find it a bit frustrating. On the one hand there is now some actual discussion going on, with different arguments for and against some possible solutions (both long term and short term). But from the side who argues for using the deadname for old releases not much constructive feedback is coming really.
2021-06-22 17329, 2021
CatQuest
I have a gaming pc (win 7) where I have a selection of browsers installed (it had no internet connection because my old wirelss was crap, it died and was replaced justa few days ago) and i've slowly been updating browsers and trying out vivaldi (good) but also the newer chromebased browsers have issues that are endemic to chrome specifically,
2021-06-22 17329, 2021
CatQuest
(adblock as an example works so much differently in modern browsers and I have gotten used to being able to do ctrl+shift+k to quickly get into "block this" mode, sigh) also the SG Google trasnaltor extension which I use excessively (and for work) works differently in chromebased, it will start a new box for each tab (and hat is bad for me)
2021-06-22 17348, 2021
CatQuest
outsidecontext: i noticed. I see that the one side is being fairly constructive in reasoning and discussion
2021-06-22 17358, 2021
CatQuest
and the other.. not so much
2021-06-22 17324, 2021
outsidecontext
I understand that this clearly started all the wrong way. On both sides there were assumptions of hostility and extremism, that would not have been necessary.
2021-06-22 17355, 2021
CatQuest
I'm reading from 34 and dwon (I'll have to read for mthe top/new page to get the beginning)
i just reaslied we are actually inconsistant about not deadnaming actually: we say "as is printed on time of release" (for physical media)
2021-06-22 17357, 2021
CatQuest
but atthe same time we do *Not* have a practice of no longer-excisting areas. people born in countries no longer excisting wil have to have there place of birth set to "what it is *now*" instead 🤔
2021-06-22 17334, 2021
CatQuest
we have to argue that why is exactly the historical name important in this case?
2021-06-22 17346, 2021
CatQuest
if there is a physicla written record (wg physical releases with the old name, thne)
2021-06-22 17300, 2021
CatQuest
that is a physical fact that is relevant (eg wendy carlos)
2021-06-22 17326, 2021
CatQuest
but for situations liek this, the artist was barely known with their old name, who are we actually preserving this "historical fact" for?
2021-06-22 17355, 2021
CatQuest
so many "historicla" facts are overlooked is important, not based on enough data or not even fitting ou data-model (eg old country names)
we remove "historical accurate data-fact" if eg an artist/label/rightsholder coemsalong and says "remove this coverart" . thne the IA will balcken that coverart box
2021-06-22 17355, 2021
CatQuest
if someone comes with GPDH and is like "remove this information about me" thne we are obligated to do so
2021-06-22 17301, 2021
CatQuest
how is it not?
2021-06-22 17322, 2021
CatQuest
place of birth is every bith as valid information as "name given at birth"
2021-06-22 17339, 2021
CatQuest
and has much importance on a persons life as well
2021-06-22 17311, 2021
CatQuest
nor, respectfully, is that you have deeply encroued gender disphoria.
2021-06-22 17340, 2021
CatQuest
I also think that we should have historical areas. even more so importantly for BookBrainz
2021-06-22 17321, 2021
CatQuest
do note I'm arguing this particular case when it comes to "historical data" though. i disliek making blanked statements about especially every single person
2021-06-22 17355, 2021
CatQuest
and physical media with old names, and digital covers with obvious names all of these will be historical data we shoudl preserve
2021-06-22 17343, 2021
CatQuest
in *this* particular case however: no names on the cover, person has gone out of theri way to rename everthing, they are trans nad have done this to remove the deadname excplsitly
2021-06-22 17314, 2021
CatQuest
they where not very famous before transition, they have been transitioned longer thna not(apparently?)
2021-06-22 17316, 2021
CatQuest
etc etc
2021-06-22 17327, 2021
CatQuest
in *this* case. i would argue Rg and recordings atleast
2021-06-22 17304, 2021
CatQuest
anyway we do do things in a "case-by-case" way for lots of things tho
2021-06-22 17306, 2021
outsidecontext
I totally agree. there is no one-size-fits-all solution. There are enough cases where the artists themselves keep their older stuff with their old name. I think those cases are easy, and nobody is trying to change that
2021-06-22 17316, 2021
CatQuest
yep
2021-06-22 17300, 2021
CatQuest
i do wonder if the alternate tracklists is a thing that ca n*again* fix this
2021-06-22 17306, 2021
outsidecontext
but after all those discussions I come to the conclusion that this specific case would be best handled by not using the deadname at all but the annotations.
2021-06-22 17323, 2021
CatQuest
I think i'm agree ing with outside here
2021-06-22 17339, 2021
CatQuest
atj: yea. that example is a hard one i hope we never have to deal with
2021-06-22 17303, 2021
CatQuest
because yes. that is physical releases which are fact and easily checked up every time
2021-06-22 17335, 2021
CatQuest
another thing: this person has only digital releases also
2021-06-22 17351, 2021
outsidecontext
atj: I originally though that this would be only possible to handle by keeping the original credit on the release. https://community.metabrainz.org/t/handling-name-… argues otherwise, but I'm not convinced. But we probably need a way to present the artist credits in a way that avoids confusion
2021-06-22 17352, 2021
CatQuest
if there had been physicla releases.. i'm not sure i woudl agree changing those
2021-06-22 17301, 2021
outsidecontext
+1
2021-06-22 17320, 2021
CatQuest
also kepstin's idea of the "withdrawed" release is a good one
2021-06-22 17337, 2021
CatQuest
not jsut for this kind of thing either
2021-06-22 17339, 2021
outsidecontext
also you cannot change the name as easily for real. for physical you need to do a proper re-release.
2021-06-22 17357, 2021
CatQuest
it's like a "after-the-fact unofficial status"
2021-06-22 17313, 2021
CatQuest
exactly. and those rereleases woudl be in the db with the new name anyway
2021-06-22 17318, 2021
outsidecontext
but I would be in favor of replacing the deadname on both release group and recording, especially in cases where it gets re-releaded under new name
2021-06-22 17322, 2021
CatQuest
i do think release groups and recordings are fine to change tho
2021-06-22 17334, 2021
CatQuest
hah,
2021-06-22 17338, 2021
outsidecontext
:D
2021-06-22 17350, 2021
kepstin
for sure release group and recording, and the idea behind withdrawn release is that it'll show up lower in the UI so the first releases seen are the ones with the correct name
2021-06-22 17353, 2021
CatQuest
in these trans casesm, Rg and recordings seem fien to change
2021-06-22 17301, 2021
CatQuest
yep
2021-06-22 17309, 2021
CatQuest
so that would, also help with physical releases
2021-06-22 17328, 2021
CatQuest
(I feel sorry for poor reosarevok on vacation comming back to this :D)
