and also the thing reosarevok said, that people consider their sub-genre of rap to be the genre, not "rap"
2022-10-14 28753, 2022
derwin
probably the only people who are really into calling things "hip-hop" in 2022 are people who are into classic era or modern backpacker stuff
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derwin
perhaps I'm ignorant and underestimating how well represented the community in question is, /shrug
2022-10-14 28747, 2022
derwin
there will always be a tension between how a community views itself and how outsiders, even (especially?) mega-fan music collectors view them
2022-10-14 28739, 2022
aerozol
derwin: I don't think rap would be at all niche compared to the other stuff we have. Certainly not underrepresented in the db
2022-10-14 28733, 2022
aerozol
But maybe 🤔
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derwin
I am positing a relationship between the likelihood that a given rapper would use the word "hip-hop" to describe what they do and how likely a music collecting person nerdy enough to use musicbrainz is to be into them...
florida rapper whose primary lyrical material is about how he beefs with his "opps" and wants to do harm to them (which, in fact, he and his entire crew have done rather a lot of, and vice versa, in real life)
2022-10-14 28740, 2022
derwin
try to find a song where he actually uses the words "hip-hop"
2022-10-14 28705, 2022
reosarevok
I guess it's a bit like metal
2022-10-14 28715, 2022
reosarevok
Old school metal bands sang about metal and being metal all the time
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reosarevok
And old school hip hop had tons of songs about hip hop itself
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reosarevok
But now neither seem that common
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reosarevok
(and now nobody does "metal", they do "depressive doom power metal" :p
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reosarevok
)
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derwin
yeah, broadly similar
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reosarevok
And now I have fucking Kid Rock of all people stuck in my head
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reosarevok
(because he mixes it "with the hip hop" :p )
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Lotheric
Rapping is a specific vocal delivery, while hip hop can include fashion, deejaying, dance (hip hop dance and breakdancing), art (especially graffiti culture), and a general lifestyle and attitude.
2022-10-14 28731, 2022
Lotheric
rap music and hip hop music is pretty much the same when there's a vocal rap component to the mnusic
2022-10-14 28700, 2022
Lotheric
hip hop is a culture, rap is more of a work type in MB terms
2022-10-14 28725, 2022
Lotheric
that's how I see it
2022-10-14 28719, 2022
Lotheric
The two terms were often lumped together as rap/hip hop in record stores, I guess that contributed to the confusion
2022-10-14 28731, 2022
Lotheric
aerozol, derwin, reosarevok ^^
2022-10-14 28717, 2022
reosarevok
To be fair, a lot of recent rappers even in Europe are like "fuck your four elements shit, this is crime music" :p
2022-10-14 28733, 2022
reosarevok
Whenever someone mentions that definition of hip hop
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Lotheric
genres are genres
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Lotheric
hehe
2022-10-14 28731, 2022
Lotheric
what is nu-metal for one, is rapcore for the other
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CatQuest
meanwhile I listen to Gothic Country
2022-10-14 28714, 2022
Lotheric
it's like let's say
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Lotheric
folk and trad
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Lotheric
similar enough
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CatQuest
also Punk Folk
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Lotheric
you'll never have a precise definition with broad genres
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Lotheric
just look at rock
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Lotheric
it's used all over the place
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Lotheric
everything's rock
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CatQuest
no
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CatQuest
Antonio Vivaldi is not rock
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Lotheric
I know CatQuest
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Lotheric
it's a figure of speech
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CatQuest
I'm difficult because when it coms to genres I don't wanna talk about them
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CatQuest
we should talk about fish instead
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Lotheric
lol
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labaxter1
How can one submit DISCIDs (generated by Picard) for a release someone else added? (MBID: 956fe52e-81c2-439e-be46-1f01724081f3)
2022-10-14 28736, 2022
outsidecontext
Use the submit disc ID in Picard's disc ID lookup dialog and follow the process in the browser
I have... and I find the release using the MBID... it appears that two CD's show up under this release. I want to add the discid the the first of them. But, no radio buttons show up for selecting the disc.
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kellnerd
That usually indicates that the number of tracks is not matching
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labaxter1
Actually there are 2 CDs in this set, that have the same number of tracks... I know which CD is in my drive. I want to select that CD... does this mean that it is not possible to add a discid when that is the case?
Someone organized the tracks differently from the actual CDs for their own need
2022-10-14 28712, 2022
kellnerd
So, definitely create a new release for the CDs :)
2022-10-14 28727, 2022
labaxter1
Ugh... ya, I see that now
2022-10-14 28751, 2022
kellnerd
Have you already started? I'm currently experimenting with a combination of Discogs import and resuing the exisiting mediums. Just let me know and I wil stop.
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labaxter1
no
2022-10-14 28731, 2022
labaxter1
still thinking, was about to ask if there is a way of copying the data, and then reorganizing for the CD release.
2022-10-14 28706, 2022
labaxter1
It's very annoying that his guy to all the time to do this, and then made it unusable.
2022-10-14 28721, 2022
labaxter1
*took all the time*
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labaxter1
keep going...discogs import... I think I like what you are thinking...
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kellnerd
Yeah, now it's more complicated to reuse the existing recordings but I think I'm on a good way already
2022-10-14 28708, 2022
kellnerd
Almost done, now I have to re-select some recordings
2022-10-14 28725, 2022
labaxter1
awesome... since I don't use picard/musicbrainz much, except for ripping CDs, I'd like to know what you did? is the external links field where you add the reference to discogs that then does the import?
2022-10-14 28732, 2022
kellnerd
Oof, the worst part is done.
2022-10-14 28702, 2022
kellnerd
Now you can add the disc IDs and other details, I will enforce MB style guidelines for the titles later.
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labaxter1
this is awesome. You nailed it. Exactly matches CDs in the box.
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labaxter1
And the discids calculated by abcde... adding first one now.
2022-10-14 28737, 2022
labaxter1
So can you talk me through the process you went through get the data in? That is a LOT of data.
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kellnerd
Sure, I started using a userscript which seeds the release editor with data from Discogs, but I could have started with the "Add release" link in the sidebar of the release group (because I discarded the tracklists from Discogs).
2022-10-14 28745, 2022
kellnerd
Once you have selected a RG, you can pick existing releases from the "Release Duplicates" tab.
2022-10-14 28754, 2022
kellnerd
There I re-used the 12xDM release's mediums as a start and had to split the mediums which were not matching one of the 17 CDs.
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kellnerd
I did this by opening the track parser and cutting out the lines which belong onto the next disc. Then I added a new medium, pasted the lines of these tracks, parsed them and shuffled the medium into the correct position and rest the track numbers (to make them start with one for each disc).
2022-10-14 28758, 2022
kellnerd
In the recordings tab, the release editor remembered the correct recordings for all the mediums which were unaltered or the first N tracks had remained. For the rest I had to select the correct recordings again.
2022-10-14 28734, 2022
kellnerd
It wasn't that easy because many of the tracks on the release have the same title and similar lengths, so I decided to play it save and copied the recording URLs from the tracks of the existing release.
2022-10-14 28737, 2022
kellnerd
If you open the release editor with an open recording search and the tracklist of the other release side by side, you can simply drag and drop the recording link into the search box and it will automatically select that recording.
2022-10-14 28709, 2022
labaxter1
wow!
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kellnerd
It is still annoying to do this repeatedly for all tracks of a medium, but so far there is no way to assign arange of existing recordings to a range of tracks.
2022-10-14 28721, 2022
kellnerd
I've just seen that these are your first edits on MB. What an ungrateful example to start editing ;)
2022-10-14 28701, 2022
labaxter1
just added the third.
2022-10-14 28723, 2022
labaxter1
and abcde is reading just find :-D :-D
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labaxter1
s/find/fine/
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aerozol
great work labaxter1 and kellnerd!
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aerozol
Might not have been useful in this case but FYI labaxter1 you can use existing tracklists/mediums once you are in the ‘Tracklist’ tab of the editor. Then Add medium > Existing medium
2022-10-14 28759, 2022
aerozol
Then you can edit it to match from there
2022-10-14 28702, 2022
aerozol
If you are creating a new release within an existing release group it will automatically prompt you to choose an existing tracklist to work from, on the Release Duplicates tab (because usually tracklists within a group should be very similar anyway)
2022-10-14 28725, 2022
labaxter1
thanks...aerozol... I'll add your comments to my notes... Well, it took all day, but know I know why abcde is not always finding data in MB, but I can find the data a web search... most releases are smaller than this 17cd set... so it should be less tedious. Phew! (I've finally now got it all ripped)... I rip because it is much easier to find/play flacs from my computer... but I like to own the CDs... (in the case of the
2022-10-14 28725, 2022
labaxter1
addition sets, they can become quite valuable over time -- not that I intend to sell them, but my heirs might)
2022-10-14 28721, 2022
aerozol
lol honestly just looking at a set with more than maybe 4 CDs hurts me, you’re not alone
2022-10-14 28743, 2022
aerozol
If you rip and add data to MB while you do so you are generating value even if your heirs are unappreciative plebs :D
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aerozol
Though for a set like that I would check to see if it’s online anywhere before I ripped it myself!
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labaxter1
Ja... @aerozol... its a HUGE amount of data... (it's one reason I'd gotten in the habit of waiting a bit)... before ripping. @kelinerd: All track durations are now set. I've used abcde and musicbrainz for a while, so I don't mind giving back a little -- long day though (including the ripping)
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derwin wonders whether we should add a dj pool site like this one for linking of such releases : https://digitaldjpool.com/songs/128582/missy-elliott-work-it-dj-chris-watkins-mashup
