#musicbrainz

kellnerd: ping

reosarevok: pong

Hi! I was looking at STYLE-1229

STYLE-1229: Director as a relationship for release( groups) https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/STYLE-1229

Yay!

So, I understand this would apply to both "music video director" and "musical theatre director"?

Or should we have two rels for video director vs stage director?

(we already have "school director" so :D )

Separate rels would be better, the only problem is that nobody calls the job "stage director" in liner notes :D

It's "director" or "directed by" in 90% of all cases I think

Nobody calls "school director" that either, I think, it's just "director" on a school setting

But I think it kinda makes sense in that people know if they're dealing with one sort or the other? Hopefully?

Exactly. Are there disambiguation comments for rel types?

Otherwise the longer term is also acceptable. Or it could be named "director (acting)".

Right now I have https://musicbrainz.org/relationship/0dafbb5d-2...

I think "video director" / "video director for" and "stage director" / "stage director for" are not the end of the world?

But maybe "stage" is not right for an audiobook, heh :)

Yeah, there is only a lonely actor in a room, but I would not mind the name if the description also mentions audiobooks.

#almostanaudiobook

Director relationships!! Definitely needed for audiobooks

As you've also left a comment on ticket STYLE-1230, I think that was more of a UX issue with the old relationship editor, each voice actor credit required five clicks at least without the new "add another" buttons.

STYLE-1230: Adding a nice method to crediting people acting a certain role in Audio Dramas https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/STYLE-1230

But I would also welcome if we could give voice actors more visibility by moving "spoken vocals" out of the "other vocals" section.

Ideally "spoken vocals" would have more specific subtypes like "voice actor" and "narrator"

Hmm

The issue with that is that I'm not sure those are styles of voice? :D

They're more like tasks, no?

Thers's definitely a huge difference between someone reading the narration parts and someone acting a role, but I get what you mean.

Depending on their role, the voice actor might even sing lead vocals etc.

(I expect a narration is often acted as well - when I heard Gaiman narrate his own Nordic myths book he was kinda-sorta acting out the roles, but also narrating the rest in his normal voice)

If it’s useful, here is an example of the common credits I can’t enter (director is a biggie): https://musicbrainz.org/release/ed3cb657-de5c-4...

Yeah, that's the thing with audiobooks, the narrator "acts" the different spoken roles in addition to the parts the narrator of an audio drama would read.

(warning: audio drama I linked is only recommended if you like really *terrible* audio dramas)

(I kinda got that idea just by the cover, lol)

aerozol: do you think "stage director" is ok as a name for audiobooks if it mentions it's for things theatre, audio drama and audiobooks on the description?

If not, do you have a better suggestion? :D

As a beginner editor I would find it confusing and possibly err on the side of caution by not using it. Unfortunately.

Tricky

In my experience with beginner editors they don't even know/care about relationships

Director (video) and Director (stage/studio)?

Especially beginners which add audio dramas barely add more than a tracklist

Everyone who adds relationships was a beginner at adding relationships at some point. There’s probably some confusing stuff that I ignore to this day, because there’s lower hanging fruit

I guess even I would find it a bit confusing, since I don’t really associate ‘stage’ with a recording studio

FWIW, keep in mind the default now when we select a relationship is to actually show the description :)

(I haven’t had a close look at this ticket btw)

That's ok, this is not part of the ticket directly anyway )

Is ‘stage’ helpful if it’s not applicable in a lot of cases? Or am I misunderstanding the meaning of the term.

My worry is that if we just have "director" it could mean anything, including the video one, or a classical conductor

I would perhaps go ‘Director’ and ‘Video director’?

See above comment :)

Maybe that's not an actual problem, I dunno - I would expect people to use it for "director" classical credits that mean "conductor" tho

Is it bad if people have somewhere to put something that’s just credited as ‘director’?

Naive idea: Is there a problem with having multiple identically named rel types "director" if the descriptions are also shown?

Hmm yeah that’s true, re. conductor.

kellnerd: mostly they would get grouped weirdly, nothing *awful*, but

Video director as a type isn’t an issue imo

(also would make it impossible to select properly for users who hide the descriptions)

yeah, I think video director is a shoe-in

I'm just trying to figure out the best option for stage and audiobook now

Or what about "audio director"? I haven't really seen someone use that term but the distinction to "video director" is immediately clear. Maybe it becomes a problem when we have video recordings of stage performances.

Better you than me :D

I considered "audio/stage director"

Of course, we could have all three

"audio director" and "stage director"

Maybe it gets dumb tho

I would not be against, but I mainly need the "audio director" in this case. Has someone already requested the "stage director"?

I like granular data a lot, but it gets tricky when you don’t have the data to start with. If a lot of credits are just ‘director’ then will editors be able to choose the right one, or will they guess? (that’s a genuine question, I don’t know)

(I only really need audio director as well)

ooh, I like that if I search for ‘director’ conductor comes up already

Lol, I've just found https://musicbrainz.org/relationship/0eb67a3e-7...

I’m leaning towards audio director + video director + (optional) stage director, upon reflection.

"creative direction" - whatever that means

I haven't seen that relationship in the wild so far

Hah. Surely a relationship made for a prog rock concept albums

Description would also match audio directors if you want it to.

(in an abstract way)

lol, I'm an idiot

video director *is* there already

Were you adding it again?

No

Not yet

But I was thinking we should add ti :p

*it

Haha, I missed that too

I knew about it for the record

https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/STYLE-138 (https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:HibiscusKazen...) kinda sounds like an audio director?

STYLE-138: "Project director" Artist-Release relationship

(already had to remove some wrong credits with this rel type from audio dramas)

For audio director, I expect that'd be both release and recording?

reosarevok: In the same (very abstract way) that the description of "creative director" matches.

(video director should also be on release level actually)

^re ticket 138

kellnerd: I'm just thinking, will audio director mean we no longer need this or will we need *yet another director-ish thing*

Definitely, we need all these directors at release and recording level

reosarevok: I dunno, maybe ask the author of the ticket whether the exisitng "creative direction" rel type is what they want.

(if you understand that rel)

*the purpose of

> An important side note: In previous RFCs, some people mentioned a director-like credit relating to visuals, choreography, etc. That is what is commonly referred to as creative direction and we now have a separate relationship for it.

(from https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:HibiscusKazen...)

So it's something different from that at least

Yeah, dunno

?

Ok, step one, add video director for releases

😁

Let's start simple

And I guess reword from "directed the video" to "was video director for"

> aerozol: I’m leaning towards audio director + video director + (optional) stage director, upon reflection.

^that :+1

Since it's not *only* for music videos, it can also be for a recorded opera or whatever

"This indicates the artist was the director of this video recording." for recordings, "This indicates the artist directed video on this release." for release I guess

Sounds good to me

I assume we should still prefer it for the recordings if known?

(both the wording and the idea to discretely include "stage director" in "video director")