would it be acceptable to vote against https://musicbrainz.org/edit/77335285 ? I think I have a high tolerance for extremes of all kinds if they are artistical, but seeing a NS swastika on MB front page is too much for me really
sentry_sdk has additional RedisIntegration and SqlAlchemyIntegration available as well. Should we add those also?
ruaok
outsidecontext: it is up to you. I fully agree with you, not something I want to see either. but it is a slippery slope.
also moin!
zas
moiiin
yvanzo
I’m not a fan either but voting against cover art edits won’t prevent these images to be displayed on MB front page. Fortunately, it’s always for a short time: This image has been replaced with more recent additions already.
outsidecontext
Moin!
alastairp
_lucifer: sure, lets try all of the integrations, and see what they give us
_lucifer
👍
yvanzo
However, we could be more selective about cover art being displayed on the front page: only added with upvotes for example.
outsidecontext
yes. it's also a thing were to draw the line. I also argued in favour of having such releases on MB even if we don't like it. but there is a qualitative difference between just having metadata or actual content (which would be images and lyrics to me)
yvanzo: I like this suggestion, even if it means less changes there. but at least someone had a look at it before.
ruaok
yvanzo: I like that idea.
reosarevok
That's not a bad idea but I'm not sure it would help with this
If that's the right cover, it *should* be upvoted
It should help in a case where someone tried to add spam to flood the front page tho
yvanzo
There is no group of NS editors that vote on edits for now at least :)
reosarevok: Good point, maybe we could not display more than one cover art entered by the same editor too.
iliekcomputers
good morning!
zas
imho we shouldn't censor cover art, but we are still tied by laws. In France, displaying svastiskas isn't illegal, but if it is used for nazi propaganda. So, that's definitvely a slippery slope.... we already have bands tagged as nazi/RAC/white supremacists in the db, and that's definitively and unfortunately a part of the music world.
so as a music database, I don't think we should filter them out, else we start to select what can be in or not, and it is a never ending story... some people are uncomfortable with svastikas, some others with nudity, ... music is reflecting humanity... and sometimes humanity just sucks
reosarevok
Yeah, it's a complicated one. We 100% shouldn't remove these things. I personally also dislike the idea of having an NSFW / whatever filter
But if people wanted it enough I'd be ok with that
(where if an image has more "hide" than "show" votes, it will be hidden until you click)
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if that was used as some stupid way to troll
zas
yes, also we could have same issue with nudity, porn or violent images, so a system to "hide" by default based on votes could be actually useful
reosarevok
I mean, we have those already, we just don't censor them either rn
zas
does this mean we need a way to "vote to hide"? It could help in such situation. When flag is set, image isn't displayed anywhere by default, still it is listed and can be downloaded, but it needs extra step.
ZaphodBeeblebrox
hide from the front page sure. not hide on album pages
a "hid" image could perhance not be selected for RG image (provided it already had several non-hid ones)
and thne peopel can opt in to "always hide" "hidden" images
reosarevok
Issue is that it wouldn't help for the front page unless the original uploader sets it, probably
ZaphodBeeblebrox
I don't want to always click "show" on cover art or whatever just because a bunch of americnas decided that some picture with boobs on the cover was "offensive"
reosarevok
Because by the time someone else does, chances are it's almost out of the front page already
ZaphodBeeblebrox
exactly
on the other hand: what are the chances that images show on the front page? all the times I've uploaded iamges recently it wa "cant show he front image" and it didn't actulaly show
and it's not like the iamge wont be pushed of the front page quickly anyway
reosarevok
They show 10 minutes after upload, so not immediately
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ZaphodBeeblebrox
imho, the more attention we give these sort of images the better it is (for them)
ignore it to silence i say
zas
imho cover art on front page is another issue: I would prefer we select something else than "recently added", because to me it doesn't make much sense anyway, and leads to such problems. We could display releases based on other criterias.
yvanzo
ZaphodBeeblebrox: Like reosarevok wrote: any editor can flood MB with topic-oriented releases; these will have a prominent place in MB front page.
ZaphodBeeblebrox
has that actually ever hppened?
the only one I can remember was when kepstin uploaded a bunch of anime single ones and they formed a continious image sort of
yvanzo
Yes, it already happened, even it was probably not to voluntarily get on the front page: just someone doing batch edits.
ZaphodBeeblebrox
but in case it does. i figure having an admin role user option that could effectivly "axe" the showing of cover art for a set time woudl be fine
what i'm trying ot get at is : how big a deal is this? how many peopel actually visit the front page?
yvanzo
I guess it is one of the most visited page.
ZaphodBeeblebrox
what are we worrying about: is it that mb will be put in a bad light if trollers go and upload every swastika image at once?
is it that we don't want ot be seen to be (inexplisitly) pro these ideas?
is it that we don't want to offend people
is it we don't want to traumatise people (which is the ony one i'd care about)
well i'd be pretty traumatised by a cover art of someone puking :(
yet i won't ban this
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yvanzo
Newcomers will see it, indexing bots will see it.
ZaphodBeeblebrox
I have 0 issue with an official " we don't support these ideals, but we won't ban images/releases of these topics"
written somewhere in the coc
yvanzo
really, I cannot read as fast as you write :)
ZaphodBeeblebrox
and of course if someone starts behaving malicious to banz0r them
sorry
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ruaok
"MetaBrainz projects are interested in all types of data/metadata: Published/unpublished, popular/fringe, western/non-western and human/non-human music should all be captured by our projects. MetaBrainz does not discriminate on sex, religion, race or controversial viewpoints. MetaBrainz does not prefer one type of metadata over another, which also means that MetaBrainz does not condemn or condone any of the content catalogued in the
so I'm not sure, is this editor adding this coverart because they're an ass? (possibly if they listen to this kind of music) but unless doing it maliciously (ie lots at once to spam and make it thing) then it's fine
Mr_Monkey
> imho cover art on front page is another issue: I would prefer we select something else than "recently added"
I second that !
ZaphodBeeblebrox
hmm
ruaok: exactly
reosarevok
Mr_Monkey, zas: what would you suggest display?
IIRC the whole idea was "see, people add stuff all the time"
ZaphodBeeblebrox
yea
imho we could display $number of recent releases and upon refresh another number
having a quick-enough go-through of say. "todays uploads" will fix this problem, inho
imho*
Mr_Monkey
I'm not exactly sure what data we have access to, but we could surface either 1. manually curated items (say from last day/week) but that's extra work 2. most popular (by page visits) releases added today/yesterday 3. entities with the most "activity" (would that be views, comments, edits, …? not sure)
ZaphodBeeblebrox
hmmmm
i like "today/this week" and on quick rotation. so basiclaly any image woudl be shown maybe once if at all
who's going to bother about curation? i mena we might get chaban to do it, they seem extremely active in looking at edits. but it's kidna mean to make this one guy's job :P
zas
yes, in fact the "recently added" criteria is just among zillions, I'd select releases with the best metadata (or edit activity) rather than a release just added having almost no metadata, and perhaps even incorrect metadata
Mr_Monkey
I guess "vote to put this on the front page" sort of functionality? But it would always be easier to use statistics rather than curating.
ZaphodBeeblebrox
the problem with that is that then we'd get, white, western angoamericna releases only
zas
but if we enforce no more than one release by country/region
ZaphodBeeblebrox
and then the releases that *really* needs a pare of eyes (badly added) lose yet one eye
oh but I like this: one releaase per country/region. and we can say "today in the wrodl" and have them shown, actually ool idea
!
today in the world"
zas
the recently added selection is also bias to white/western angloamerican music btw
ZaphodBeeblebrox
true that
i'm jsut sceptic to a "curated" or "votable" list. who's going ot vote, who is going ot curate? this is gonig ot be annoying work that wil eventually lead to nothing
ruaok
agreed. people will forget and nothing, or stale content, will be shown.
ZaphodBeeblebrox
if everyone can vote: then why won't rac trolls jsut band together and vote trugh qustionable iamges
if only say, eutomods, thne it's gonig ot lead to elitism
Mr_Monkey
Fair enough, there's lots of arguments generally against using curation or voting.
ZaphodBeeblebrox
and people will forget and exatly that
zas
we could do something automatic: select N countries among all countries, then N artists in each country, then N releases with significant metadata, etc... we could also select a set of genres
ZaphodBeeblebrox
still feel that they need ot be "recent"
in order to make senseon the front page . aka what reo pointed out
zas
it could, but I would take recently modified rather than recently added
ZaphodBeeblebrox
I like the idea of having "recent afric and, recent australian recent european, or recent in rap recent in j-pop recent in afuxe etc
zas
or recently added but with significant amount of metadata
ZaphodBeeblebrox
hmmmmm
how wil lthat exactly prevent swastik thoguh? if anything it'll lad trolls to want to improve those releae often or much
rather thna the current state of "they are mostly ignored/forgotten"
zas
well, imho "shocking images" issue is another problem, I still think we need a way to hide them if enough people consider they should
ZaphodBeeblebrox
as long as it's opt-in i don't mind :)
I just don't want to be accused of being "pedo" because i uploaded scorpions "virgin killer" original image :D
zas
ahah :)
ZaphodBeeblebrox
:D
outsidecontext
+1 to zas comment above. also to ZaphodBeeblebrox to not give that too much attention
ZaphodBeeblebrox
yea I mean.. it's attention they *want*
outsidecontext
I think that's my main point, the front page is giving much attention to this. It could even be understood as "promoting" it and reflect badly on MB. if we find a way to make it less likely something like this comes up on the front page that would be great
I even think a way to flag content (community votes) would be ok. Certain uses could be limited by this (front page definitely, release group main image maybe, could be a user option to hide such content by default), without removing the content completely.
ZaphodBeeblebrox
I see where you're getting at. imho just having a more excanged (ie each refresh brings a second set of images) would go a long way to do that..
i fea it will lead a bit to Streisand effect" if peopel have to vote/curate things
fear*
outsidecontext
true also
atj
Not sure how that would happen if you're voting to hide an image
ZaphodBeeblebrox
for consensus we'd have to have severla people voting, thus we have to find some way of showing images to be voted, thereby showcasing potentiall problematic iamges
"vote on these images we think might be problematic"
etc
atj
Well I'd assume that people who are specifically looking to vote on images wouldn't be the ones who you want to protect from offensive images?
You're effectively asking people to moderate the images, so they can't really expect to only see non-objectionable content?
ZaphodBeeblebrox
that's not what i'm saying. I'm say ing "Streisand Effect" ie. we want these images to have as little "air-time" as possible, and by having people ote on them (which is itself an issue see ruaoks point above) we are putting light on images that we'd ideally want ignored as much as possible
atj
Otherwise, how does it even work?
ZaphodBeeblebrox
my point is exctly that it wont work to moderate these ;)