it is challenging that our needs fit right between advanced and enterprise.
2022-01-18 01848, 2022
mayhem
I think enterprise is just too much.
2022-01-18 01828, 2022
mayhem
$1500/year for enterprise, given our usage, would be fair. what do you think?
2022-01-18 01844, 2022
yvanzo
Yes, it is what they are offering actually.
2022-01-18 01813, 2022
reosarevok
Can I see the email too, out of curiosity?
2022-01-18 01821, 2022
yvanzo
Sure, just forwarded it.
2022-01-18 01824, 2022
reosarevok
If they offer 50% for open source then enterprise would already be 1800
2022-01-18 01830, 2022
reosarevok
Should be possible to talk about 1500
2022-01-18 01852, 2022
yvanzo
Oh right, $ not € :)
2022-01-18 01856, 2022
reosarevok
Oh, wait, I was checking monthly price :D
2022-01-18 01812, 2022
reosarevok
So yeah, only change is USD vs EUR
2022-01-18 01819, 2022
reosarevok
Worth asking about :)
2022-01-18 01827, 2022
mayhem
I will respond to them directly and come to an agreement.
2022-01-18 01840, 2022
yvanzo
I don’t recall exactly if they mentioned €500 or €1500 during the chat, so better clarify it with them. :)
2022-01-18 01842, 2022
reosarevok
Some language translators talked about how our current strings with placeholders don't really work in their languages
2022-01-18 01805, 2022
yvanzo
They are happy to provide a cut for open-source projects, but we are happy to support an open-source project too. :)
2022-01-18 01808, 2022
reosarevok
And asked us to just have translatable strings for each possibility
2022-01-18 01823, 2022
reosarevok
If we ever move into that direction, we'll need more of those 50k strings anyway :)
2022-01-18 01841, 2022
yvanzo
These are source strings, not translated strings.
2022-01-18 01808, 2022
reosarevok
Sure, but I mean that they've wanted source strings like "cover version of", "cover instrumental version of", etc
2022-01-18 01817, 2022
reosarevok
Rather than that be made via placeholders
2022-01-18 01826, 2022
reosarevok
If we did that, that'd need more source strings :)
2022-01-18 01835, 2022
yvanzo
I don’t think that we will reach 20k source strings easily even with these changes to source strings.
2022-01-18 01801, 2022
yvanzo
But if we do, we can adjust the plan with Weblate accordingly. :)
2022-01-18 01804, 2022
reosarevok
Sure :)
2022-01-18 01829, 2022
reosarevok
Remind me, did weblate help also with translating our docs?
2022-01-18 01850, 2022
reosarevok
We really should decide how to move forward with that :) But it's of course tricky
2022-01-18 01819, 2022
yvanzo
We only have picard-docs on an experimental Weblate instance hosted by outsidecontext so far :)
2022-01-18 01835, 2022
reosarevok
So that goes via read the docs?
2022-01-18 01838, 2022
reosarevok
The actual doc display
2022-01-18 01842, 2022
yvanzo
Yes
2022-01-18 01850, 2022
reosarevok
If it works fine, maybe we should consider moving MB docs there too
2022-01-18 01855, 2022
yvanzo
This is a separate issue, but yes it might be a longer-term option. :)
2022-01-18 01800, 2022
reosarevok
I know, I know
2022-01-18 01805, 2022
reosarevok
I just got reminded because of the docsprint week
2022-01-18 01859, 2022
yvanzo
Right, this really related.
2022-01-18 01809, 2022
yvanzo
+is
2022-01-18 01848, 2022
reosarevok
If we have a tested and working system to translate docs using readthedocs + weblate, that gives a very big reason to move to use that with MB too
2022-01-18 01856, 2022
reosarevok
What does that involve? A github repo for docs?
2022-01-18 01835, 2022
yvanzo
reosarevok: As discussed at the last summit, when moving forward with Weblate migration, we will be able to plan for a community event about translation: introduction + sprint. :)
2022-01-18 01851, 2022
reosarevok
Sure, I know, but that was about the actual site :)
If we go this route, we might want to have two sets of docs, one for site usage, one for development and API
2022-01-18 01817, 2022
reosarevok
But dunno
2022-01-18 01819, 2022
yvanzo
That is an issue for many users: it requires a GitHub account. It is a bit less user-friendly than MediaWiki.
2022-01-18 01834, 2022
yvanzo
(For user docs at least)
2022-01-18 01843, 2022
reosarevok
That's for sure. But it doesn't require it for *reading* the docs, right? :)
2022-01-18 01812, 2022
reosarevok
We could even still have the wiki as a place to amend docs, but when the team sees changes and we agree with them, we transfer them to github
2022-01-18 01825, 2022
reosarevok
If we wanted to make sure we don't take that away from the community
2022-01-18 01846, 2022
reosarevok
So, like we do now with transclusion, kinda
2022-01-18 01854, 2022
reosarevok
Dunno if it would be worth the hassle, but it's doable
2022-01-18 01841, 2022
yvanzo
I’m not sure there is a reliable conversion tool from MediaWiki to Markdown for a continuous transclusion like this.
2022-01-18 01815, 2022
Ansh joined the channel
2022-01-18 01818, 2022
reosarevok
Yeah, I suspect that'd just be "dev copies the change by hand and converts as needed"
2022-01-18 01819, 2022
reosarevok
So, more hassle
2022-01-18 01827, 2022
yvanzo
Another option would be to have our own editing UI on top of a git repository, rather than requiring to use GitHub UI/account.
2022-01-18 01833, 2022
reosarevok
But given that changes don't happen that often, maybe still doable
2022-01-18 01845, 2022
reosarevok
And changes would send PRs?
2022-01-18 01815, 2022
reosarevok
I don't feel the few people who actually edit docs would be too annoyed with having a github account - the new, different formatting might be confusing though :/
2022-01-18 01852, 2022
yvanzo
It’s not just the account, it’s also the UI that is more appropriate for coders than for editors.
2022-01-18 01822, 2022
yvanzo
There used to be GitBook for example, but it’s not open source anymore IIUC.
2022-01-18 01830, 2022
reosarevok
True, just not sure how hard it would be to code a new UI on top. If we can reuse something, maybe
2022-01-18 01800, 2022
yvanzo
I didn’t want to suggest coding a new UI at all :D
2022-01-18 01805, 2022
reosarevok
Oh, ok :)
2022-01-18 01819, 2022
reosarevok
I misunderstood the "our own UI" bit I guess
2022-01-18 01847, 2022
reosarevok
I think the translatable docs would be worth some frustration for the doc editors tbh, because hopefully it'll also lead to less frustration with *edits* of people who can't read the docs in their language :D
2022-01-18 01854, 2022
reosarevok
But it's hard to know for sure
2022-01-18 01813, 2022
yvanzo
There is a cool feature in Weblate: source strings review: Allowing editors to review source strings submitted by developers :)
2022-01-18 01843, 2022
reosarevok
Oh
2022-01-18 01844, 2022
yvanzo
So we can have a collaborative review process without requiring editors to inspect the source code.
2022-01-18 01849, 2022
reosarevok
so they could leave a comment like "typo here"?
2022-01-18 01854, 2022
yvanzo
yes
2022-01-18 01857, 2022
reosarevok
Sweeet
2022-01-18 01803, 2022
yvanzo
Of course, it requires developers to make the changes manually in the source code.
2022-01-18 01851, 2022
reosarevok
Sure, but easier to report there than to make a ticket
2022-01-18 01812, 2022
reosarevok
I assume it also means a translator could ask "what does this refer to, X or Y" and we could answer directly there
2022-01-18 01826, 2022
reosarevok
Are the comments to source strings cross-language?
2022-01-18 01837, 2022
reosarevok
Like, if a Polish translator asks and we answer, will the Italians also see the answer?
2022-01-18 01841, 2022
yvanzo
Yes, it will definitely save time for everyone.
2022-01-18 01829, 2022
yvanzo
Yes, editors can also attach screenshots to source strings to bring more context to other translators.
2022-01-18 01842, 2022
reosarevok
... can we move yesterday?
2022-01-18 01859, 2022
yvanzo
Sure, it also has time-traveling feature ;)
2022-01-18 01821, 2022
reosarevok
:D
2022-01-18 01810, 2022
lucifer
alastairp: around?
2022-01-18 01814, 2022
mayhem
zas: ping
2022-01-18 01858, 2022
alastairp
lucifer: more or less - I'm about to head for lunch though
2022-01-18 01802, 2022
alastairp
what's up?
2022-01-18 01846, 2022
lucifer
wanting to discuss organizing the rtd docs. like which sections to make and what to put under what section.
2022-01-18 01839, 2022
alastairp
can we do that in ~40 mins?
2022-01-18 01840, 2022
lucifer
can do after you return from lunch.
2022-01-18 01842, 2022
lucifer
sure
2022-01-18 01844, 2022
alastairp
great
2022-01-18 01820, 2022
reosarevok
mayhem: I read the document you sent. One thing I did notice is that there's a lot of emphasis on pre-release drafts and whatnot, which is not something we currently store or deal with (except when they get leaked, I guess D: )
2022-01-18 01800, 2022
mayhem
yes, that is quite a lot of their business.
2022-01-18 01828, 2022
mayhem
and byta doesn't want to create a metadata store.. otherwise we could tell them to hold the data until it can be released.
2022-01-18 01844, 2022
reosarevok
Yeah. I mean, *we* could code a way to hold metadata if we need to
2022-01-18 01859, 2022
reosarevok
It's just that makes more sense for "artist sends album to press to preview"
2022-01-18 01813, 2022
reosarevok
But not so much for "artist sends beats to their collaborator to rap on" :)
2022-01-18 01823, 2022
mayhem
the problem there is that if a leak happens, that metadata appears in our DB. then the artist will say that we leaked it!
2022-01-18 01824, 2022
reosarevok
(since those files are probably never expected to be made public as-is)
lucifer: FWIW, MB docs for both API users and external developers are mostly under the same entry too: https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Development/ (not necessarily something to follow, just how it is atm)
i see, currently we have it that way tii but find it a bit difficult to find whether something is documented.
2022-01-18 01842, 2022
lucifer
oh definitely! +1
2022-01-18 01823, 2022
alastairp
I've seen other people use swagger, but I've never used it myself
2022-01-18 01806, 2022
alastairp
there's now this uncomfortable middleground where we use sphinxcontrib.httpdomain within python, but it's no way near as interactive as swagger docs
2022-01-18 01849, 2022
lucifer
there's an open LB ticket to make openapi spec. it would be nice but i think we can't integrate with rtd.
2022-01-18 01800, 2022
yvanzo
It is not just about writing docs, so it is beyond the scope of this week, but probably worth it. IIRC, it was part of a GSoC project for BB.
2022-01-18 01802, 2022
lucifer
alastairp: what about docs that are common to pythonbrainz, should we move those under LB for now?
2022-01-18 01818, 2022
reosarevok
yvanzo: oh, those api docs look sweet
2022-01-18 01824, 2022
reosarevok
Should try to do something like it...
2022-01-18 01802, 2022
alastairp
I did some updates to pymbngs on the weekend, and had to dive into the WS docs page again. it bought back memories
2022-01-18 01824, 2022
alastairp
lucifer: for deployment, or other things?
2022-01-18 01845, 2022
lucifer
deployment.
2022-01-18 01853, 2022
yvanzo
reosarevok: This has been suggested before. By the way, should we close MBS-5307? API doc has been rewritten since then, there might even be a duplicate ticket about that.
