You know, so we don't get gummy bear secret police in plainclothes beating us
2011-02-03 03442, 2011
reosarevok
:)
2011-02-03 03455, 2011
ruaok
you forget the "benevolent" in BDFL
2011-02-03 03409, 2011
ruaok
my secret police comes and GIVES you gummy bears
2011-02-03 03414, 2011
nikki
aww
2011-02-03 03456, 2011
reosarevok
Ok
2011-02-03 03402, 2011
reosarevok
So what do we need to debate?
2011-02-03 03414, 2011
reosarevok
nikki, why would we not use sortname?
2011-02-03 03426, 2011
nikki
so I can find japanese artists for once :P
2011-02-03 03420, 2011
nikki
(and chinese artists are even worse, they have so many different spellings/pronunciations that one surname ends up all over the alphabet)
2011-02-03 03425, 2011
reosarevok
Maybe the problem is the sort only with latin itself then?
2011-02-03 03440, 2011
nikki
it's the way our sortnames are done in general
2011-02-03 03401, 2011
nikki
everywhere sorts things differently, but we can only store one
2011-02-03 03457, 2011
reosarevok
Any good idea?
2011-02-03 03458, 2011
reosarevok
:p
2011-02-03 03418, 2011
nikki
add a type field to aliases
2011-02-03 03439, 2011
nikki
have "sortname" as a type, then use the language field to set sortnames for particular locales
2011-02-03 03451, 2011
ruaok
not a bad idea
2011-02-03 03451, 2011
reosarevok
Wel
2011-02-03 03453, 2011
reosarevok
*well
2011-02-03 03402, 2011
nikki
(and search hint could be another type, so we'd know which aliases are proper ones and which are just gibberish we added)
2011-02-03 03403, 2011
reosarevok
We kinda need that type field anyway
2011-02-03 03404, 2011
reosarevok
To separate
2011-02-03 03408, 2011
reosarevok
Yeah, what nikki said
2011-02-03 03434, 2011
nikki
(and birth name would make a good type too, for artists who don't use a load of performance names, but also don't use their birth name... which is what discogs has afaik)
2011-02-03 03407, 2011
reosarevok doesn't like that last idea too much, although he can understand why it could be used
2011-02-03 03415, 2011
reosarevok doesn't like how birth names work on discogs
2011-02-03 03425, 2011
reosarevok
(that is, barely if at all)
2011-02-03 03430, 2011
nikki doesn't like how we duplicate everything just to add a surname
2011-02-03 03440, 2011
reosarevok
Well
2011-02-03 03406, 2011
reosarevok
Name w/o surname -> NGS artist credit for birth name?
2011-02-03 03433, 2011
reosarevok
I just don't like the idea of treating artists differently because they have more or less performance names
2011-02-03 03436, 2011
nikki
but they normally don't use the birth name
2011-02-03 03401, 2011
nikki
(e.g. madonna, alizee)
2011-02-03 03412, 2011
reosarevok
And don't like the idea of losing the current legal name use
2011-02-03 03437, 2011
reosarevok
Hmm
2011-02-03 03439, 2011
nikki
I've run into quite a few problems because we split too many names
2011-02-03 03443, 2011
reosarevok looks confused
2011-02-03 03447, 2011
reosarevok
Please explain :)
2011-02-03 03437, 2011
reosarevok makes use of performance names + legal names extensively and is interested on the matter
2011-02-03 03441, 2011
nikki
I've seen one release with credits for the artist's full name, and a re-release with credits for the performance name
2011-02-03 03403, 2011
nikki
so who do I link to?
2011-02-03 03412, 2011
reosarevok
One for each, on NGS?
2011-02-03 03436, 2011
nikki
but it's one composer (or whatever the credit was), not composed by real name & performance name
2011-02-03 03436, 2011
reosarevok
Hmm, true
2011-02-03 03450, 2011
nikki
and one thing I've seen way too many times is an artist who uses different characters from their real name, but with the same pronunciation... then who do I use when the credit is in latin? they're both exactly the same in latin characters :/
2011-02-03 03452, 2011
reosarevok
Why can't the music industry be constant? :(
2011-02-03 03437, 2011
nikki
in those cases I just didn't add the credits at all :/
2011-02-03 03443, 2011
reosarevok
:/
2011-02-03 03450, 2011
reosarevok
Yeah, sounds complicated
2011-02-03 03431, 2011
nikki
and nowhere else I know treats them as separate artists, it's just us adding separate entries because the names aren't the same
2011-02-03 03420, 2011
nikki
I would mention wikipedia, but of course they don't use separate pages
2011-02-03 03427, 2011
nikki
they hate the fact a page is used at all :P
2011-02-03 03442, 2011
reosarevok
I probably wouldn't mind having them all as one artist *after* we get artist credits for ARs
2011-02-03 03430, 2011
reosarevok
But that still means doing different things for "performance names" and "performance names, but not so much"
2011-02-03 03439, 2011
reosarevok
Where do you put the limit?
2011-02-03 03405, 2011
nikki
we'll have that problem anyway with artist credits, what's an artist credit and what's a performance name?
2011-02-03 03447, 2011
reosarevok
I know
2011-02-03 03405, 2011
reosarevok
And that's a great question :p
2011-02-03 03410, 2011
nikki
but for me it's basically if they have separate "careers" or not
2011-02-03 03449, 2011
reosarevok
How separate, though?
2011-02-03 03426, 2011
reosarevok
If an artist releases a record under name A, another under (completely different) name B, then back to name A, but the three records are stylistically the same
2011-02-03 03432, 2011
reosarevok
Is that one career?
2011-02-03 03441, 2011
reosarevok
Also, I have one artist who uses two names, one for making beats, and another to rap on them
2011-02-03 03459, 2011
reosarevok
(and uses both on his albums at the same time)
2011-02-03 03408, 2011
reosarevok
(not clearly related names at all, btw)
2011-02-03 03418, 2011
reosarevok
How do you call that?
2011-02-03 03420, 2011
nikki
without knowing the artist I don't think I could really say, I can think of one artist who did a single under a different name that I would probably consider the same because the song was included on her other albums (still credited to the other name, but clearly not completely separate)
2011-02-03 03443, 2011
nikki
and for the beats/rap one, they'd need to be separate for now anyway, but if there's a clear distinction, then I could see why they'd be kept separate
2011-02-03 03408, 2011
reosarevok
And in the end I didn't really get if I should jira the sortname for browse thing or not :p
2011-02-03 03435, 2011
nikki
oh, more, when you have things like "Foolongnameius Bar" and "Foo Bar" as a performance name, who do you use when it's credited to "F. Bar" or "Bar"? (likewise "if you have Foolongnameius Bar" and "F. Bar", who do you use for "Foo Bar"?)
2011-02-03 03421, 2011
reosarevok should have a kid and name him Foolongnameius
2011-02-03 03410, 2011
reosarevok
You mean like it being "Full Name + Surname" and "Short Name + Surname"?
2011-02-03 03417, 2011
nikki
yeah
2011-02-03 03404, 2011
reosarevok
Those should probably be together
2011-02-03 03423, 2011
reosarevok
The main question would be "who's the main artist for the mbid, and who are artist credits" though
2011-02-03 03443, 2011
nikki
and if you don't pick the full name as the main artist, how do you enter it? :)
