I can see it in finder, but I'm in one of the parent directories (using the tree view)
2011-08-07 21924, 2011
bitmap
yeah
2011-08-07 21932, 2011
bitmap
if I use the tree view like that, it doesn't count as open
2011-08-07 21907, 2011
bitmap
only when it's the directory in the window title, I guess
2011-08-07 21913, 2011
Leftmost
Wow. That sounds like some FS breakage. :P
2011-08-07 21937, 2011
kepstin likes how linux filesystems handle it very simply - you can put any character except '/' or NULL in a filename, and no parsing is done on it whatsoever :/
2011-08-07 21904, 2011
bitmap
oh, it's not that I have the window open. It's whether I drag the file into Picard specifically, or just the folder that contains it
2011-08-07 21934, 2011
bitmap
as long as I don't actually select the file, it triggers the bug
2011-08-07 21949, 2011
Mineo
it gets weirder every minute ;p
2011-08-07 21926, 2011
Leftmost
Hmm. I thought Linux filesystems used NFC to store filenames.
2011-08-07 21946, 2011
kepstin
most linux software uses UTF-8 with NFC, but there's no requirement for that.
2011-08-07 21914, 2011
Leftmost
Well, tend to use.
2011-08-07 21923, 2011
kepstin
the same text encoded with NFC and NFD on linux could create two completely separate files on the FS :)
Other people saying it would break 40+ years of Unix programs running on Linux. (If they're treating filenames a bytestream, how will normalizing filenames break them?)
2011-08-07 21936, 2011
Leftmost
*as a
2011-08-07 21941, 2011
kepstin
hmm. that doesn't actually say any differences.
2011-08-07 21946, 2011
nikki
I remember testing nfc/nfd on fat32 in osx
2011-08-07 21952, 2011
nikki
but I don't remember what happened :/
2011-08-07 21914, 2011
bitmap doesn't have a fat32 drive to test with
2011-08-07 21951, 2011
nikki
no usb sticks?
2011-08-07 21953, 2011
kepstin
most modern Linux applications use UTF-8 encoded NFD, but make no particular requirements for normalization when reading files, and can even read files using other character sets (it'll print junk characters and a note saying that the filename wasn't properly encoded)
2011-08-07 21953, 2011
nikki looks for hers
2011-08-07 21929, 2011
bitmap
I have three or four USB sticks but they always dissapear when I need them
2011-08-07 21937, 2011
nikki
kepstin: nfd? it's always been nfc for me
2011-08-07 21950, 2011
nikki
aha, found it
2011-08-07 21953, 2011
kepstin
er, NFC. yes. the names are too confusing :)
2011-08-07 21955, 2011
bitmap
s/dissapear/disappear
2011-08-07 21904, 2011
nikki
I might even still have my test files on there
2011-08-07 21936, 2011
nikki
hehe
2011-08-07 21937, 2011
nikki
I do :D
2011-08-07 21902, 2011
Leftmost
I don't know why, but for some reason I prefer NFC for filename storage. One of those totally insane preferences.
2011-08-07 21954, 2011
kepstin
NFC uses fewer bytes :) save a couple bytes per filename.
2011-08-07 21901, 2011
Leftmost
Heh, another article says that all four normalization forms should be tried when opening a file on Linux.
2011-08-07 21913, 2011
Leftmost
a) That won't work. Who says it's normalized?
2011-08-07 21935, 2011
Leftmost
b) NFKC/NFKD? Really? No.
2011-08-07 21950, 2011
kepstin
it doesn't matter what normalization form something's in when you're just /reading/ it...
2011-08-07 21911, 2011
kepstin
as long as the encoding's correct, just read it and re-normalize it to what you want to use internally.
2011-08-07 21927, 2011
Leftmost
kepstin, the guy clearly doesn't really understand the issue. :P
2011-08-07 21943, 2011
Leftmost
Especially if he's assuming something would be stored in NFKC/NFKD.
2011-08-07 21903, 2011
Leftmost immediately writes a letter to the kernel list insisting that all filenames should be stored as NFKD.
2011-08-07 21954, 2011
Leftmost
To hell with equivalence!
2011-08-07 21951, 2011
nikki
on fat32, osx reads nfc filenames, but displays them as nfd. nfd filenames appear if there's no nfc version, but vanish when you try and select them
2011-08-07 21907, 2011
nikki
so you can only use nfd with hfs+ and nfc with fat32
2011-08-07 21901, 2011
Leftmost wonders why they decided to use NFD with HFS+...
2011-08-07 21916, 2011
nikki
to be awkward
2011-08-07 21954, 2011
Leftmost
Clearly.
2011-08-07 21924, 2011
Leftmost
Now, someone find me a nice Android notetaking app with both keyboard input and a draw function. :P
2011-08-07 21941, 2011
bitmap
nikki: so OSX lets you write NFD filenames to fat32 but they don't work?
2011-08-07 21905, 2011
nikki
I suspect it automatically converts them to nfc
2011-08-07 21919, 2011
nikki
I only tested creating the files in linux and looking at them in osx
2011-08-07 21922, 2011
kepstin
well, when storing filenames on fat32, it has to reencode them to legacy windows 'codepage' character sets, iirc...
2011-08-07 21924, 2011
bitmap
ah
2011-08-07 21939, 2011
kepstin
so weirdness may result :/
2011-08-07 21911, 2011
Leftmost
I believe that there's a codepage for UTF-8, though.
2011-08-07 21941, 2011
nikki
I mean... I originally used a fat32 external drive with osx and never had any problems with picard
2011-08-07 21925, 2011
nikki
then I used an ext3 formatted drive mounted via a vm and didn't have any problems either (it seemed to automatically convert to nfc there too)
2011-08-07 21920, 2011
bitmap
nikki: if I made an app bundle with that patch applied, would you be able to test saving to the fat32 drive? :)
2011-08-07 21928, 2011
nikki
sure :)
2011-08-07 21937, 2011
kepstin
hmm. so there is, codepage 65001 is UTF-8.
2011-08-07 21926, 2011
bitmap
luks: so do you think that patch is okay to commit?
