djce and I have been working on rika, I think that's later in the topic
ruaok
ok.
lets move on to the next issues.
preferences for advanced search?
reosarevok!
warp
warp has changed the topic to: Agenda: preference for advanced search? (reosarevok), meta description for google (kepstin), Cover Art Proposal (ijabz), MBS-4031&MBS-4113 (ocharles), rika news
reosarevok !
reosarevok
So
I tend to want to use the advanced search *much* more often than the basic one
I know so does hawke_, dunno about other people
ruaok
me too.
but are we representative of most of our users?
reosarevok
Probably not
ocharles
my hypothesis here is that the basic search is not expressive enough, and that's what needs to be improved
navap___
navap___ has changed the topic to: Agenda: preference for advanced search? (reosarevok), meta description for google (kepstin), Cover Art Proposal (ijabz), MBS-4031&MBS-4113 (ocharles), rika news, robots.txt (navap)
reosarevok
:p
(well, not *you* :P)
adhawkins
adhawkins has changed the topic to: Agenda: preference for advanced search? (reosarevok), meta description for google (kepstin), Cover Art Proposal (ijabz), MBS-4031&MBS-4113 (ocharles), rika news, robots.txt (navap), libmb4 (adhawkins)
navap___
We get a lot of people asking where their newly created artists are. They won't show up with the advanced search
hawke_
My opinion is that the default search should give better quality results, not specifically that I want to use advanced for the advanced features.
reosarevok
navap___, neither with the basic :p
ijabz
We discussed quite a lot earlier on, and it seems to me for some users its makes sense for basic to be default and for others advanced would make more sense
reosarevok
ijabz has convinced me that having a separate basic search makes sense
But I'd like to be able to have a preference in my settings to default to advanced
(off by default)
warp
it would be a 5 minute fix to remember the checkbox state.
ocharles
cookie seems simple to add
yea
luks
which unfortunately doesn't give you access to the individual fields, like the basic MB search, but it's much smarter in general
reosarevok
warp, also for the search in the upper box?
nikki
ocharles: I *don't* want it to remember if I had the advanced box checked last time I searched :P
ocharles
luks: sounds nice
navap___
reosarevok: yes
warp
reosarevok: no, that doesn't have a checkbox.
ijabz
luks, yes artist search sorts of does this, and I am looking at actually using a DisjunctionMaxQuery which dismay is base don
reosarevok
warp, that's the useful one :p
navap___
warp: It's still doable by a hidden input
luks
ijabz: my primary use case are releases
reosarevok
(the other still requires going to the search page, I can as well click the box there)
luks
ijabz: or anything where I want to search in title + artist
navap___
warp: I had it done on my test server way back when that was the only searc hthat worked on mirrors
nikki
I would like to see the search improved though. not having to select the type and having it detect if I enter a valid advanced search would be nice
hawke_
Yes please — selecting the type is annoying and very limiting
warp
navap___: then it may not be obvious how to change it.
ijabz
Yeah, I want to extend it to releases ecetera, currently only being done for artist search
hawke_
er…nikki you meant advanced/basic, didn’t you…not the entity type.
ruaok
it sounds like there are two things to be done here: 1. revamp how we cal the current search server, including keeping state of the checkbox 2) investigating improved search back-end options.
*call
nikki
hawke_: I mean entity type. they were two completely separate things that I think could be improved
hawke_
nikki: OK, then I agree.
reosarevok
warp, that's why it'd be more obvious with a preference! :)
hawke_
reosarevok: only if you know there’s a preference to change.
reosarevok
For the rare cases when I *don't* want to use advanced (I'm yet to find one) I can always disable it manually for that search
warp never uses advanced.
hawke_, if you're the kind of person who wants to default to advanced because of its uses (not because of better results) you know that
hawke_
IMO it’s a choice between “search that works” (advanced) and “mostly useless search” (basic)
reosarevok
If you don't even read the "Search" wiki page
You won't know what this "advanced" thing is anyway :)
ruaok
ijabz: can you please do some more research into this dismax thing and a possibly combined index?
then, who wants to take on spearheading consensus on how to call the search server? preferences, remember checkboxes and the like.
ocharles
I think dismax is the best first step
personally
or something that improves basic search results
luks
might be hard to port it from solr though
reosarevok
So I'm not getting my preference, right? :P
ijabz
Yes, I'm already started on this :)
ocharles
yay
ruaok
ijabz: excellent.
ocharles
reosarevok: if we do this right, you shouldn't need to use advanced seacrh
this is more my point
nikki
reosarevok: btw, I can make you a tiny user script to add advanced to the search box at the top if you like :P
ocharles
title AND artist should not be advanced :)
ruaok
ocharles: yes, but that is the long term solution. sounds like people want a short term fix as well.
reosarevok
ocharles, and barcode:XXXXXXXXXXX shouldn't either?
ocharles
title AND artist^5 AND (title~10 OR title~2) should be advanced
ijabz
ocharles, no we need both, I already went through all this an hour earlier
ruaok
or should we simply wait for ijabz to give his is feeback?
ocharles
reosarevok: correct
reosarevok
ruaok, I guess a script can work for now
ocharles
ijabz: I agree we need both
nikki notes that mason automatically did a barcode search when entering a barcode as a release search
but advanced should be an exception, not a common need
the_metalgamer joined the channel
reosarevok
nikki, fine, that'd be a good thing then, please do :)
luks
there is nothing wrong with including things like that in the dismax parser
ijabz
well no I don't agree
reosarevok
(and put it on userscripts for other people who want it)
luks
you can have barcode, asin, etc. there
hawke_
ocharles: but IMO artist:Pink Floyd should not be advanced, especially if there’s typeahead suggestions
luks
enabled by default
ocharles
that's my point...
it seems disjuncted max is exactly what I describe, I just didn't know there was a name for it :)
ruaok
ok, lets leave it as a user script for now and wait for ijabz to make recommendations on how to improve search in the future.
ijabz
Let me make the improvements to search results, and then we can take it form there
ruaok
ijabz: +1
warp agrees.
ok, lets move on for now.
warp
warp has changed the topic to: Agenda: meta description for google (kepstin), Cover Art Proposal (ijabz), MBS-4031&MBS-4113 (ocharles), rika news, robots.txt (navap), libmb4 (adhawkins)
ruaok
kepstin-netbook, you're up.
reosarevok
If he's not around, I guess nikki or I or ianmcorvidae could also take this one
But if he's around that's better, so kepstin-netbook?
nikki
not me
reosarevok
Well, you can explain the problem
I don't even know if that *is* the right solution but I expect people here to have ideas :p
ianmcorvidae
if kepstin's not here I can explain what he was talking about at least
reosarevok
Please do
ianmcorvidae
our descriptions on google are terrible
nikki was talking about some the other day which had no actual information about the release in them
"20 May 2011 ... Annotation. Annotation last modified on 2005-11-12 13:05 UTC. « ‹ 1 2 3 › » Page 1 of 3. Album. Year, Title, Rating, Releases. 1968, This Was ..." is an example description
ocharles
ouch. the tests I did earlier at least managed to get just the annotation
ianmcorvidae
kepstin found a page on google webmaster tools about setting a meta description tag; I think he wanted to suggest we generate useful stuff to put in there, to improve our search descriptions
ocharles
or nothing
ianmcorvidae
I don't remember the link, but the problem is clear, in any case
ruaok
sounds like a valid problem.
can someone make a ticket, plz?
nikki
ocharles: well that artist has an empty annotation, that thanks to navap, we now display as a section on the page :P
warp
seems like a valuable thing. I'd say create a ticket in jira, link to the relevant google pages, and then poke developers to start working on it :)
ocharles
nikki: heh
navap___
hm?
ruaok
warp: +1
reosarevok
nikki, can you add said ticket? :)
ruaok
time is getting short, lets move on to CAA proposal.
ijabz?
warp
warp has changed the topic to: Agenda: Cover Art Proposal (ijabz), MBS-4031&MBS-4113 (ocharles), rika news, robots.txt (navap), libmb4 (adhawkins)
ijabz
Its just general frustration about how the specification is proceeding
ianmcorvidae
you and me both :P
reosarevok
ianmcorvidae, isn't yours about how it's *not* proceeding? :p
ianmcorvidae
same thing :P
ijabz
and that I feel totally confused as to what is being proposed, and what has been considered
ianmcorvidae
we've been talking past each other, I'm not sure how to resolve that; I think I may ask someone else to serve as representative from here though