now i willnot have a problem with squeesign in my sleeping bag
2012-10-03 27724, 2012
uk
ianmcorvidae: I notice it was your birthday yesterday (your TZ), so: Happy belated birthday! :)
2012-10-03 27735, 2012
uk
However, your home page is out of date now.
2012-10-03 27737, 2012
ianmcorvidae
yup :) thanks
2012-10-03 27740, 2012
ianmcorvidae
oh, bah
2012-10-03 27744, 2012
ianmcorvidae
I always forget about that :P
2012-10-03 27741, 2012
uk
*g*
2012-10-03 27745, 2012
reosarevok
Oh
2012-10-03 27750, 2012
reosarevok
Happy birthday then!
2012-10-03 27701, 2012
reosarevok
Or unhappy, depending on your opinions on getting old :p
2012-10-03 27713, 2012
ianmcorvidae
somehow I can't categorize 23 as 'old' :P
2012-10-03 27726, 2012
reosarevok
Tell that to your 10 year old self!
2012-10-03 27742, 2012
CallerNo6
And while you're out (better to combine trips, save fuel) stop by http://web.mit.edu/adorai/timetraveler/ and say "hi". I'll be there (though I might be pretty old).
2012-10-03 27711, 2012
uk
Judging by the colour-coding on the language comparison matrix, the case is between Java and Haskell?
2012-10-03 27721, 2012
uk favours Haskell.
2012-10-03 27728, 2012
ianmcorvidae
honestly I suspect python will actually win, if we switch at all
2012-10-03 27753, 2012
ianmcorvidae
the coloration isn't exactly super-careful
2012-10-03 27758, 2012
ianmcorvidae
and three levels doesn't totally capture the nuances
2012-10-03 27710, 2012
ianmcorvidae
haskell has a big problem with being perceived as scary
2012-10-03 27735, 2012
ianmcorvidae
and Java the main team has little experience with, which is more important than it seems from the coloration
2012-10-03 27726, 2012
reosarevok
uk: do you favour haskell, or not java? :p
2012-10-03 27734, 2012
uk
We could do a short introduction to Haskell at the summit. :)
2012-10-03 27738, 2012
ianmcorvidae
the reason java and haskell look really good is that they have people very specifically trying to argue for them (ijabz and ocharles respectively)
2012-10-03 27742, 2012
uk
reosarevok: Both, I guess. ;-)
2012-10-03 27747, 2012
ianmcorvidae
the problem is more for people new to the project
2012-10-03 27758, 2012
ianmcorvidae
with perl we already have the problem of people going "ew, perl" and thus not contributing
2012-10-03 27705, 2012
ianmcorvidae
haskell could easily amplify that problem
2012-10-03 27740, 2012
uk
I think the main problem isn't the language, but the code structure.
2012-10-03 27700, 2012
uk
At first, you have no idea where to look for a specific piece of functionality.
2012-10-03 27708, 2012
ianmcorvidae
with haskell? the problem is neither, it's the world's perception
2012-10-03 27728, 2012
uk
Not with Haskell, in general. Current code base too.
2012-10-03 27737, 2012
ianmcorvidae
ah
2012-10-03 27751, 2012
uk
If I want to fix X, I first need to know where to look.
2012-10-03 27757, 2012
ianmcorvidae
what's amusing to me about that is this is the most intuitive codebase I've worked with :)
2012-10-03 27702, 2012
ianmcorvidae
in terms of module organization
2012-10-03 27715, 2012
ianmcorvidae
there are a few things that annoy me periodically but largely not
2012-10-03 27745, 2012
uk
Well, if I don't know TT, Catalyst and Moose, it's quite a barrier.
2012-10-03 27753, 2012
uk
Completely apart from Perl.
2012-10-03 27757, 2012
ianmcorvidae
that templates are in root/ is one of my gripes, though once you know it you know it and that's done
2012-10-03 27727, 2012
ianmcorvidae
in my experience for smaller stuff Moose is usually irrelevant other than you end up calling its methods obviously
2012-10-03 27756, 2012
ianmcorvidae
and Catalyst is just MVC, the only vaguely-weird thing is our Entity vs. Data split (at least for me)
2012-10-03 27745, 2012
ianmcorvidae
worth noting that when I came to this codebase I'd never written any perl, much less anything else (I was a python/common lisp person)
2012-10-03 27749, 2012
Freso
I actually didn't want it terribly hard to find the place for the one small thing I needed to fix. Not when I actually went and looked properly at the source code and wasn't being lazy...
2012-10-03 27756, 2012
Freso
*didn't find
2012-10-03 27720, 2012
Freso
CatCat: I'm trying to do some lobby work to bring MB summit to DK next year.
(to be clear: it isn't appearing in search results for "Belle Histoire", which is its name exactly)
2012-10-03 27707, 2012
ianmcorvidae
murdos: btw, your live updater doesn't seem to update the last-updated date that the search server reports -- beta's showing 2012-10-01 11:10 UTC, which is older than some of the artists I see in the results :)
2012-10-03 27703, 2012
murdos
ianmcorvidae: ah. I might comes from the search servlet not refreshing its cached information. could you create a ticket in jira? I won't be able to take a look at this issue before a few days
2012-10-03 27714, 2012
ianmcorvidae
murdos: sure, can do
2012-10-03 27718, 2012
ianmcorvidae
murdos: made ticket, it's assigned to you :)
2012-10-03 27759, 2012
MBJenkins
ianmcorvidae: Update translations from transifex.
2012-10-03 27739, 2012
ijabz joined the channel
2012-10-03 27754, 2012
nikki
ocharles: since the ticket is assigned to you, what will happen for the cover art table, given that we'll suddenly be replicating a table that already has info in it? is the upgrade script going to handle that?
2012-10-03 27752, 2012
nikki
(and if not, how *do* I upgrade rather than reimport?)
2012-10-03 27726, 2012
warp
hello!
2012-10-03 27736, 2012
nikki
moin moin warp warp
2012-10-03 27713, 2012
ruaok
ianmcorvidae: seems that indexes are not rotating properly
but, that speaks volumes of the new setup. if it fails, it seems to fail for a short time and then recover
2012-10-03 27752, 2012
ianmcorvidae
yup
2012-10-03 27759, 2012
ianmcorvidae
what was the issue with the indexes not rotating?
2012-10-03 27740, 2012
ianmcorvidae
also, do we have a schedule for switching back to the new search server release? got things shipping that'll use it on the 15th :P
2012-10-03 27707, 2012
ruaok
still investigating the not rotating cause.
2012-10-03 27737, 2012
ruaok
and once I get that stable, I'd be willing to try the latest release.
2012-10-03 27750, 2012
ruaok
warp: ping
2012-10-03 27750, 2012
ianmcorvidae
k
2012-10-03 27709, 2012
warp
ack
2012-10-03 27700, 2012
warp
ruaok: pong
2012-10-03 27714, 2012
ruaok
is there still a need for rotating indexes to hobbes?
2012-10-03 27720, 2012
warp
no
2012-10-03 27725, 2012
ruaok
ok.
2012-10-03 27740, 2012
warp
murdos' updater performs good enough eventually.
2012-10-03 27756, 2012
ruaok
thats awesome to hear. :)
2012-10-03 27757, 2012
warp
it takes a few rounds of indexing to catch up with the replication packets
2012-10-03 27718, 2012
warp
well, you've seen the graphs. I haven't checked since, but I don't expect any changes there.
2012-10-03 27723, 2012
ruaok
right.
2012-10-03 27731, 2012
warp double checks now.
2012-10-03 27733, 2012
ruaok
I wonder how to boostrap a new index.
2012-10-03 27739, 2012
ianmcorvidae
how frequently are we doing full builds for the beta stuff?
2012-10-03 27740, 2012
ruaok
if for some reason we need to build a new index.
2012-10-03 27758, 2012
ianmcorvidae
(I know I'm seeing oct. 1 on beta, but I don't know if that's the last build or some caching thing)
2012-10-03 27759, 2012
ruaok
I guess we would need to stop replicating while those indexes built.
2012-10-03 27706, 2012
warp
Mon Oct 01 17:59:47 UTC 2012 FINE Finished updating index: recording in 5231.0 seconds
2012-10-03 27714, 2012
ruaok
ouch.
2012-10-03 27722, 2012
warp
that one is the longest, because we've turned stuff off while releasing.
2012-10-03 27734, 2012
warp
the subsequent rows are:
2012-10-03 27736, 2012
ruaok
how many packets?
2012-10-03 27739, 2012
warp
Mon Oct 01 18:49:11 UTC 2012 FINE Finished updating index: recording in 999.0 seconds
2012-10-03 27742, 2012
warp
Mon Oct 01 19:46:15 UTC 2012 FINE Finished updating index: recording in 822.0 seconds
2012-10-03 27745, 2012
warp
Mon Oct 01 20:38:03 UTC 2012 FINE Finished updating index: recording in 326.0 seconds
2012-10-03 27703, 2012
warp
the busiest during normal operating since then:
2012-10-03 27704, 2012
warp
Tue Oct 02 13:50:09 UTC 2012 FINE Finished updating index: recording in 1058.0 seconds
2012-10-03 27721, 2012
ruaok
good.
2012-10-03 27726, 2012
ruaok
hmmm.
2012-10-03 27741, 2012
ruaok
what is the index updating procedure for schema changes?
2012-10-03 27737, 2012
warp
ruaok: 6 packets? is that correct? seems to have been turned off for about 6 hours.
2012-10-03 27726, 2012
ruaok
seems workable. :)
2012-10-03 27757, 2012
warp
ruaok: if if that question was for me, I don't have the answer. I know little about the search server, I just know how to run this stuff.
2012-10-03 27723, 2012
ruaok
yep, that question was for you. :)
2012-10-03 27734, 2012
ruaok
seems that we need to figure that out before we deploy it.
2012-10-03 27750, 2012
warp
or we just don't deploy this until after the schema change release :)
2012-10-03 27755, 2012
ruaok
the two may need to be upgraded in lock-step.
2012-10-03 27714, 2012
ruaok
that for sure, but we need to make sure we dont screw ourseelves may 15 2013
2012-10-03 27730, 2012
warp
anyway, for this updater, you can always just rerun the normal indexing once to recreate a starting point. and start murdos' updater afterward.
2012-10-03 27706, 2012
ruaok
ianmcorvidae: > @40000000506bd32c3338637c svc: warning: unable to control /etc/service/jetty-service: access denied
2012-10-03 27710, 2012
ruaok
that would be it.
2012-10-03 27720, 2012
ruaok
the search user has not perms to restart a service.
2012-10-03 27721, 2012
ianmcorvidae
heh, that sounds problematic
2012-10-03 27731, 2012
ianmcorvidae
well, jetty does run as user 'jetty', not 'search', yes?
2012-10-03 27702, 2012
ruaok
yes, but daemontools might require root perms
2012-10-03 27709, 2012
ruaok
I think this is a case for sudo
2012-10-03 27742, 2012
ruaok
after sleep.
2012-10-03 27759, 2012
ijabz joined the channel
2012-10-03 27700, 2012
warp
sleep 8h; sudo something
2012-10-03 27710, 2012
ocharles
bullshit am I making haskell 'fit'. It's a good language.
2012-10-03 27751, 2012
ocharles
nikki: i'm afraid I'm not sure how to handle that yet
2012-10-03 27711, 2012
ianmcorvidae
I tend to agree, but I do think haskell and java look good because their rows were mostly filled out by people who like them
2012-10-03 27724, 2012
ocharles
anyone can edit those rows
2012-10-03 27734, 2012
ianmcorvidae
I'm not saying it was intentionally filling it out to look good in some manipulative way, I'm just saying they got filled out by people who like the languages :)
2012-10-03 27747, 2012
nikki
ocharles: how about making the upgrade script dump the newly replicated tables if it's running on a master server (i.e. one that makes replication packets), put the dumps on ftp and make the upgrade script import them on slaves
2012-10-03 27701, 2012
nikki
so that they're at the right point for replicating
2012-10-03 27707, 2012
ocharles
i think that's the only way to do it
2012-10-03 27725, 2012
ocharles
luckily, it's a single small table, so I think that's reasonable
2012-10-03 27732, 2012
ijabz joined the channel
2012-10-03 27729, 2012
ianmcorvidae
and yeah, I agree re: CAA replication, otherwise it's an annoying synchronization task
2012-10-03 27751, 2012
nikki
I guess it should also truncate the table before trying to import it too, since people like me already imported some data into it
2012-10-03 27757, 2012
ocharles
yea, I was about to say
2012-10-03 27708, 2012
ocharles
it might be better if we nuke the table, then add everything into the first replication packet
2012-10-03 27727, 2012
nikki
are you sure you won't get told off for making huge packets? :P
2012-10-03 27730, 2012
ocharles
but that packet will probalby be too big because 500kb is still a lot of data, somehow.
2012-10-03 27749, 2012
ocharles
:)
2012-10-03 27707, 2012
ianmcorvidae
it's an approach worth testing, anyway
2012-10-03 27708, 2012
ruaok
its somehow big in the same way that you believe haskell to be mainstream enough for our purposes.
2012-10-03 27716, 2012
Leftmost joined the channel
2012-10-03 27706, 2012
ruaok
ocharles: ianmcorvidae can explain to you in great detail as to why it is a lot of data.
2012-10-03 27747, 2012
ianmcorvidae
well, that one's not one that could be done more efficiently, unlike the statistics packet
2012-10-03 27704, 2012
ianmcorvidae
it's also a lot fewer row changes, so could be fine
