(as in chef itself works as documented. but third-party modules (recipes) vary in quality, are often badly documented, and don't quite work as you expect or want)
ocharles: is that the git '/path/to/checkout' do ... end command?
2013-01-11 01120, 2013
warp
ocharles: this recipe is slowly turning into a bash script :S
2013-01-11 01103, 2013
Freso
ocharles: It is. (And they should replace upstart with systemd *cough*)
2013-01-11 01126, 2013
Freso
ocharles: I'm curious if we'd have enough users voting/chiming in on stuff for it to be useful though.
2013-01-11 01133, 2013
Freso
But I guess we won't know unless we try. :)
2013-01-11 01140, 2013
Freso
It looks neat either way.
2013-01-11 01120, 2013
Freso
It might also work well for e.g. STYLE changes.
2013-01-11 01134, 2013
warp
Freso: indeed, IdeaTorrent looks nice.
2013-01-11 01136, 2013
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2013-01-11 01151, 2013
Freso
Oh, gee.
2013-01-11 01154, 2013
Freso
It's Drupal! \o/
2013-01-11 01112, 2013
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2013-01-11 01103, 2013
nikki
Freso: I'm having trouble imagining how we would fit the various parts of style stuff into ideatorrent. e.g. lots of style things need a wiki page
2013-01-11 01156, 2013
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2013-01-11 01126, 2013
Freso
nikki: I'm not saying the Style documents should go into an IdeaTorrent, but IdeaTorrent might be a better approach than maillist and/or ticket system for discussing changes.
2013-01-11 01114, 2013
Freso
You could still make User:-space wiki pages to showcase proposed changes and link them from IdeaTorrent.
2013-01-11 01147, 2013
nikki
the thing is that you can make a page, get votes on a change and then change the page that has the votes
2013-01-11 01157, 2013
nikki
then it looks like people have voted for something they didn't :/
2013-01-11 01127, 2013
Freso
nikki: It's no different than now.
2013-01-11 01134, 2013
nikki
yes it is. we don't use voting right now
2013-01-11 01144, 2013
Freso
nikki: +1/-1? :)
2013-01-11 01156, 2013
nikki
that's not voting though.
2013-01-11 01101, 2013
Freso
We strive for consensus.
2013-01-11 01104, 2013
nikki
+1 means the proposal has a seconder
2013-01-11 01118, 2013
Freso
I don't see why we'd strive any less for a consensus just because we use a different system.
2013-01-11 01140, 2013
nikki
because getting everyone to agree doesn't work
2013-01-11 01109, 2013
nikki
if it's going to have voting, the natural thing is that you'd aim for >x% in favour, instead of 100% in favour
2013-01-11 01128, 2013
nikki
unless you only use ideatorrent for developing the proposal and then use a separate system for actually proposing the proposal, but that gets complicated and confusing
2013-01-11 01155, 2013
Freso
I still don't really see the issue, I think. If there are a hundred that say "Yes, the proposal is awesome! Let's do it!" and one that says "Nah, my brother thinks this sounds silly.", we'll go ahead. No different from now. If 12 people say "Great idea! Let's get to it!" and 4 people say "This won't work because of X, Y, Z. Let's rework the proposal or do something else first.", then it will be
2013-01-11 01157, 2013
Freso
sent back to the proposer. Like now.
2013-01-11 01151, 2013
nikki
Freso: that's not how it works right now though. it's more that there are an unknown number of people who sit silently agreeing while 1 person says "no, I think it won't work"
2013-01-11 01116, 2013
nikki
if you're "lucky", you get one person arguing for and one against and the proposal still goes nowhere
2013-01-11 01128, 2013
nikki
essentially if someone disagrees, you argue with them until they withdraw their veto or you need one of the style leaders to override it
2013-01-11 01142, 2013
nikki
which is not the same as 95% think it's a good idea, so we'll accept it
2013-01-11 01109, 2013
Freso
If we decide that we strive for consensus, 2% disagreeing with a change with reasonable arguments (ie., not "my brother thinks this sounds silly") can hold a proposal back.
2013-01-11 01116, 2013
warp
it's called building consensus. it requires level 5 Courage, Diligence, Understanding, and Expression.
2013-01-11 01125, 2013
warp
(sorry, too much persona 4 for me)
2013-01-11 01101, 2013
Freso
nikki: If a proposal now gets 95 people giving a +1, three commenting without casting "votes"/"seconding", and two people -2 giving technical arguments as to why a giving proposal won't actually work. What will you do?
2013-01-11 01109, 2013
nikki
Freso: we don't have 95 people giving a +1
2013-01-11 01116, 2013
Freso
nikki: I'm not saying we do.
2013-01-11 01131, 2013
nikki
a proposal needs a +1, most people are lazy and don't respond after that, unless they're really really keen on the proposal
2013-01-11 01125, 2013
nikki
ignoring people trying to do schema changes through style (that's not going to work, veto or not), style stuff largely does not have things like that. it's all about whether people agree that things should be standardised in such and such a way or whether we should add such and such a relationship
2013-01-11 01136, 2013
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2013-01-11 01155, 2013
ocharles
warp: it's sounding like you're trying to use chef for deployment
2013-01-11 01100, 2013
ocharles
but it's not really designed for deployment
2013-01-11 01103, 2013
ocharles
it's for configuring/provisioning
2013-01-11 01106, 2013
ocharles
at least, is my understanding
2013-01-11 01124, 2013
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2013-01-11 01105, 2013
warp
ocharles: yeah, you may be right.
2013-01-11 01153, 2013
warp
ocharles: so I should replace some of this with fabric?
2013-01-11 01101, 2013
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2013-01-11 01125, 2013
ianmcorvidae
meh, you can't pass the recording to use for a track when doing RE seeding?
2013-01-11 01136, 2013
warp
ianmcorvidae: you can't?
2013-01-11 01106, 2013
warp
ianmcorvidae: should be possible.
2013-01-11 01124, 2013
reosarevok
There are a lot of things that should be possible :)
2013-01-11 01111, 2013
warp
ianmcorvidae: this whole seeding business is a hack ofcourse. mediums.* is the tracklist page, rec_mediums.* is the recording assocations page.
2013-01-11 01154, 2013
ianmcorvidae
if it's possible it's not documented
2013-01-11 01109, 2013
ianmcorvidae
nothing about rec_mediums at all
2013-01-11 01120, 2013
warp
ianmcorvidae: so it'll be something like rec_mediums.0.associations.0.gid = recording mbid.
ruaok: Also, I'm around for a bit if you want to poke me about #musicbottle :)
2013-01-11 01154, 2013
ianmcorvidae
it's never reasonable to run flash or java except with explicit approval, and often not even then :P
2013-01-11 01107, 2013
ianmcorvidae <3 chrome's 'click to run' option
2013-01-11 01134, 2013
Freso <3 NoScript
2013-01-11 01150, 2013
warp <3 default linux firefox?
2013-01-11 01155, 2013
kepstin-work uses flashblock
2013-01-11 01107, 2013
kepstin-work
er, but that's java
2013-01-11 01118, 2013
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2013-01-11 01137, 2013
Mineo
fun fact: I actually tried to file a bug against openjdk earlier todays but the bug submission form needs longer to load than a 100 disc classical release on musicbrainz :/
