#musicbrainz-devel

hm?

warp: howfuckedismydatabase.com is made my some last.fm employees

ex last.fm employees according the page linked from the footer.

nah, cms provided the error messages

(the current dba)

ocharles: I was mostly wondering why you were directing that first comment at me :)

http://howfuckedismydistro.com/gentoo/ also good :P

ocharles: the footer links to http://laur.ie/, which says <strike>last.fm</strike> Etsy.

oh, laurie is Etsy now

cool

chef is like php

Project musicbrainz-data build #116: FAILURE in 3 min 38 sec: http://ci.musicbrainz.org/job/musicbrainz-data/...

ollie: Add CDTOCs to mediums

(as in chef itself works as documented. but third-party modules (recipes) vary in quality, are often badly documented, and don't quite work as you expect or want)

sadly, yes

I'm currently about to give up on the git recipe.

oh well. I'll try again after lunch break. afk!

Yippie, build fixed!

ollie: Add CDTOCs to mediums

yay, CD TOCs

Project musicbrainz-data build #118: SUCCESS in 2 min 13 sec: http://ci.musicbrainz.org/job/musicbrainz-data/...

ollie: Use consistent test group names

luks, ianmcorvidae (and ocharles and warp): I made a ticket for our replication thing being weird, if you have any comments - http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-5744

nikki: thanks for the graphs

i wonder what's up. Probably doesn't help that replication packets aren't the first job

warp: git recipe?

Freso: https://github.com/opscode-cookbooks/git

(well, I think it's that one. chef is still a bit of a mystery to me)

http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/24701/ this project is interesting

in regards to our decision required woes

warp: git support is built in to chef

ocharles: is that the git '/path/to/checkout' do ... end command?

ocharles: this recipe is slowly turning into a bash script :S

ocharles: It is. (And they should replace upstart with systemd *cough*)

ocharles: I'm curious if we'd have enough users voting/chiming in on stuff for it to be useful though.

But I guess we won't know unless we try. :)

It looks neat either way.

It might also work well for e.g. STYLE changes.

Freso: indeed, IdeaTorrent looks nice.

Oh, gee.

It's Drupal! \o/

Freso: I'm having trouble imagining how we would fit the various parts of style stuff into ideatorrent. e.g. lots of style things need a wiki page

nikki: I'm not saying the Style documents should go into an IdeaTorrent, but IdeaTorrent might be a better approach than maillist and/or ticket system for discussing changes.

You could still make User:-space wiki pages to showcase proposed changes and link them from IdeaTorrent.

the thing is that you can make a page, get votes on a change and then change the page that has the votes

then it looks like people have voted for something they didn't :/

nikki: It's no different than now.

yes it is. we don't use voting right now

nikki: +1/-1? :)

that's not voting though.

We strive for consensus.

+1 means the proposal has a seconder

I don't see why we'd strive any less for a consensus just because we use a different system.

because getting everyone to agree doesn't work

if it's going to have voting, the natural thing is that you'd aim for >x% in favour, instead of 100% in favour

unless you only use ideatorrent for developing the proposal and then use a separate system for actually proposing the proposal, but that gets complicated and confusing

I still don't really see the issue, I think. If there are a hundred that say "Yes, the proposal is awesome! Let's do it!" and one that says "Nah, my brother thinks this sounds silly.", we'll go ahead. No different from now. If 12 people say "Great idea! Let's get to it!" and 4 people say "This won't work because of X, Y, Z. Let's rework the proposal or do something else first.", then it will be

sent back to the proposer. Like now.

Freso: that's not how it works right now though. it's more that there are an unknown number of people who sit silently agreeing while 1 person says "no, I think it won't work"

if you're "lucky", you get one person arguing for and one against and the proposal still goes nowhere

essentially if someone disagrees, you argue with them until they withdraw their veto or you need one of the style leaders to override it

which is not the same as 95% think it's a good idea, so we'll accept it

If we decide that we strive for consensus, 2% disagreeing with a change with reasonable arguments (ie., not "my brother thinks this sounds silly") can hold a proposal back.

it's called building consensus. it requires level 5 Courage, Diligence, Understanding, and Expression.

(sorry, too much persona 4 for me)

nikki: If a proposal now gets 95 people giving a +1, three commenting without casting "votes"/"seconding", and two people -2 giving technical arguments as to why a giving proposal won't actually work. What will you do?

Freso: we don't have 95 people giving a +1

nikki: I'm not saying we do.

a proposal needs a +1, most people are lazy and don't respond after that, unless they're really really keen on the proposal

ignoring people trying to do schema changes through style (that's not going to work, veto or not), style stuff largely does not have things like that. it's all about whether people agree that things should be standardised in such and such a way or whether we should add such and such a relationship

warp: it's sounding like you're trying to use chef for deployment

but it's not really designed for deployment

it's for configuring/provisioning

at least, is my understanding

ocharles: yeah, you may be right.

ocharles: so I should replace some of this with fabric?

meh, you can't pass the recording to use for a track when doing RE seeding?

ianmcorvidae: you can't?

ianmcorvidae: should be possible.

There are a lot of things that should be possible :)

ianmcorvidae: this whole seeding business is a hack ofcourse. mediums.* is the tracklist page, rec_mediums.* is the recording assocations page.

if it's possible it's not documented

nothing about rec_mediums at all

ianmcorvidae: so it'll be something like rec_mediums.0.associations.0.gid = recording mbid.

heh

warp: if you know what this is, could you look at http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Release_Editor_Seeding and update it?

ianmcorvidae: yes, but not today :). can you assign a ticket to me?

sure, I'll do that later

ok, thanks.

"Any valid medium format name: may be any one of auto generate me"

hah

yeah, heh

brrrr. its arctic here in cali.

8C outside.

(and runs)

...

These Southerners

ruaok: It *is* Polar week.

ruaok: Just wait for Monday.

:D

:-)

ruaok: Also, I'm around for a bit if you want to poke me about #musicbottle :)

it's never reasonable to run flash or java except with explicit approval, and often not even then :P

er, but that's java

fun fact: I actually tried to file a bug against openjdk earlier todays but the bug submission form needs longer to load than a 100 disc classical release on musicbrainz :/

did it give you a 502 too?

no, I just gave up :P

nikki: on your invoice...

yes?