I think that's the example to change the server, right?
2014-02-11 04227, 2014
alastairp
because at the time I wrote the library, that's what I was doing it for
2014-02-11 04232, 2014
reosarevok
Change it to beta or something, heh
2014-02-11 04247, 2014
alastairp
yeah, that's not a bad idea
2014-02-11 04202, 2014
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2014-02-11 04254, 2014
JonnyJD_
technically test.musicbrainz.org would be a good example since every submitting-client developer should test against that first. If test.mb.o would work..
2014-02-11 04251, 2014
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2014-02-11 04201, 2014
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2014-02-11 04214, 2014
nikki
are you offering to fix it?
2014-02-11 04253, 2014
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2014-02-11 04235, 2014
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2014-02-11 04239, 2014
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2014-02-11 04252, 2014
JonnyJD_
I don't even know what's exactly broken
2014-02-11 04216, 2014
nikki
iirc the server's hard drive fails and it all needs setting up again
2014-02-11 04220, 2014
nikki
failed, even
2014-02-11 04210, 2014
JonnyJD_
hm, I heard about that one hard drive fail, but test.mb.o is gone longer (or maybe another earlier drive failure)
2014-02-11 04230, 2014
nikki
the original problem was that the code was so out of date that the server wouldn't start
2014-02-11 04222, 2014
JonnyJD_
so it is basically the problem of setting up a full-blown server again and keeping it maintained/updated?
2014-02-11 04230, 2014
nikki
yes
2014-02-11 04253, 2014
JonnyJD_
not sure if I can help with that, since my rika account isn't even updated :-/
2014-02-11 04230, 2014
JonnyJD_
sorry about that, but last time I remember having to explain why test.mb.o is even necessary
2014-02-11 04212, 2014
reosarevok
Which I'm not too sure about yet
2014-02-11 04217, 2014
reosarevok
At least as its own real server
2014-02-11 04224, 2014
reosarevok
Just redirect it to some sandbox in rika
2014-02-11 04243, 2014
nikki
that still doesn't solve the problem :P
2014-02-11 04246, 2014
JonnyJD_
yeah, I don't know about "real server", but it has to be a sandbox with a separate DB
2014-02-11 04244, 2014
JonnyJD_
and it has to be maintained/updated (well non-updated would be better than having none)
2014-02-11 04259, 2014
nikki notes that the i18n server has always been on mbsandbox.org and still has a habit of being out of date if not completely broken
2014-02-11 04206, 2014
nikki
it's not very good for testing if it's not up to date :P
2014-02-11 04252, 2014
JonnyJD_
well, at least the submission part of the WS should be up to date
2014-02-11 04204, 2014
reosarevok
What's that?
2014-02-11 04209, 2014
reosarevok
The ISRC / barcode thing?
2014-02-11 04226, 2014
reosarevok
Well, ISRC I guess (wish we would just remove the barcode thing...)
2014-02-11 04234, 2014
JonnyJD_
yes, and possibly collections, although that can be tested life
2014-02-11 04247, 2014
nikki
for your specific case, and for other people's cases other parts of the code need to be up to date
2014-02-11 04254, 2014
JonnyJD_
yep
2014-02-11 04229, 2014
JonnyJD_
testing the "html frontend" is also a valid use case for test.mb.o
2014-02-11 04254, 2014
reosarevok
Couldn't we have a small script to just git pull master every two weeks?
2014-02-11 04229, 2014
JonnyJD_
I guess that would work sometimes but not for all updates
2014-02-11 04209, 2014
JonnyJD_
the DB also needs updates
2014-02-11 04220, 2014
nikki
we still need to install new dependencies, the data still needs replacing, schema changes still need handling
2014-02-11 04252, 2014
nikki
reosarevok: are *you* volunteering? :P
2014-02-11 04216, 2014
reosarevok
Certainly not, I'm far from convinced we need it that much
2014-02-11 04226, 2014
reosarevok
(they can just ping me to update my sandbox and use that :p)
2014-02-11 04238, 2014
reosarevok
(well not _this_ week I guess since no lappy but in general)
2014-02-11 04212, 2014
JonnyJD_
Well, I look at it as a client dev and as such you normally test (at least the "writing to DB" part) against a test server/DB. That is part of the workflow.
2014-02-11 04249, 2014
reosarevok
Do people normally offer those DBs themselves?
2014-02-11 04206, 2014
JonnyJD_
Everybody can develop client applications. That shouldn't need knowledge who to ping and ask for a rika sandbox (or what rika is)
2014-02-11 04207, 2014
reosarevok
(I mean, nothing stops a dev from just building his own test DB...)
2014-02-11 04224, 2014
JonnyJD_
reosarevok: client-dev != server-dev
2014-02-11 04243, 2014
JonnyJD_
and building a server or test DB is not trivial
2014-02-11 04244, 2014
reosarevok
Sure, nobody says change the server, just run it
2014-02-11 04251, 2014
reosarevok
Isn't that what the VMs are for?
2014-02-11 04208, 2014
JonnyJD_
yes, currently VMs is what I use
2014-02-11 04211, 2014
nikki
heh
2014-02-11 04225, 2014
reosarevok
(if there's a problem with the VMs we should of course fix it)
2014-02-11 04229, 2014
nikki
so you write an app using the webservice so that you don't need a local db, but have to download a local db anyway? :P
2014-02-11 04229, 2014
JonnyJD_
but using and running a multi-GB VM to test a 1 KB python client application..
2014-02-11 04252, 2014
reosarevok
Of course, there's the thing that at least for things that submit data, I'd be much happier if only people connected enough to us to know what rika is would write them, heh
2014-02-11 04208, 2014
reosarevok
Since they're dangerous sources of bad data if done wrong :/
2014-02-11 04235, 2014
reosarevok
(and for things that do not submit data, isn't just using the normal WS good enough?)
2014-02-11 04214, 2014
reosarevok
In fact, even Jaikoz is a source of bad data with reasonable frequency due to the dumb barcode thing :(
2014-02-11 04232, 2014
reosarevok
(which was probably a good idea when we had all releases together anyway, but now...)
2014-02-11 04212, 2014
JonnyJD_
Yes, when you don't submit you can test against the live server. (well, most python scripts don't submit, I guess)
2014-02-11 04214, 2014
nikki
if we do the editable ws thing, it's not just barcodes that people'll be able to submit, you do realise? :P
2014-02-11 04226, 2014
reosarevok
Yes
2014-02-11 04243, 2014
reosarevok
Which to me means we should have an API key thingy and only allow select trusted apps to use it :p
2014-02-11 04202, 2014
JonnyJD_
well, we shouldn't make an editable WS without having test.mb.o, but that WS isn't worked on yet, is it?
2014-02-11 04220, 2014
nikki
no, it's not
2014-02-11 04233, 2014
reosarevok
I mean, the main use I can see for an editable WS is to have some specific "third party" tools people can use to edit, but not to let people edit like crazy by hitting the API directly
2014-02-11 04242, 2014
reosarevok
(I'd very much not trust that)
2014-02-11 04245, 2014
reosarevok
But dunno, we'll see
2014-02-11 04204, 2014
reosarevok
Maybe I'm more worried than I need to be :p
2014-02-11 04224, 2014
JonnyJD_
so you are saying all devs that use the editing WS should set up an own test server?
2014-02-11 04227, 2014
reosarevok
Huh?
2014-02-11 04241, 2014
reosarevok
No, I'm saying we should heavily restrict who can use the editing WS once we have it
2014-02-11 04251, 2014
JonnyJD_
yes, but restrict by what?
2014-02-11 04254, 2014
reosarevok
We can provide a test server, that's different and I'm fine with it
2014-02-11 04205, 2014
JonnyJD_
people that don't make mistakes in code so they don't need to test?
2014-02-11 04215, 2014
JonnyJD_
ah yes, different issue then
2014-02-11 04220, 2014
reosarevok
Yeah, yeah
2014-02-11 04233, 2014
reosarevok
It's just that nikki directed that scary comment at me up there :p
2014-02-11 04211, 2014
reosarevok
I'm not opposed to the idea of a test server, anyway, don't get me wrong - I'm just not sure how big a priority it should be at the moment
2014-02-11 04226, 2014
reosarevok
(but if we do get the editable ws then the priority certainly grows anyway)
2014-02-11 04226, 2014
reosarevok
Or, said in another way - I suspect only you need to test writing things now and you have a VM, heh
2014-02-11 04249, 2014
JonnyJD_
well, it's not just me. (though I certainly make the biggest fuzz..)
2014-02-11 04207, 2014
JonnyJD_
there was someone on the mb-devel ML recently for example
2014-02-11 04202, 2014
JonnyJD_
and probably some people testing everything against the live server
2014-02-11 04201, 2014
JonnyJD_
anyways, since there is nobody that has time to do it currently (including me), then I'll just shut up again
2014-02-11 04205, 2014
Mineo
to be fair, I set up the server on my computer a few days ago on a non-ubuntu system and I'd call the process 'trivial' :)
2014-02-11 04225, 2014
JonnyJD_
Mineo: we might have different defintions for trivial
2014-02-11 04247, 2014
JonnyJD_
even if it works better now (the last time I tried things like that was some time ago), my definition doesn't include downloading several GB of DB data
2014-02-11 04237, 2014
JonnyJD_
but good to hear that all necessary dependencies are now installed in a local directory flawlessly
But seems to be no public discussion on the what was discussed or the conclusions
2014-02-11 04251, 2014
nikki
it wasn't a summit in the usual sense, it largely ended up being a chance for us to work together in a single place for once
2014-02-11 04247, 2014
nikki
like I was testing the release editor and bitmap was fixing bugs as I found them, and ian was working on something using knockout and bitmap was helping him
2014-02-11 04210, 2014
nikki
we did talk about various tickets to try to come up with a rough idea of what we plan to do this year and what depends on what, which we haven't turned into anything more legible yet
2014-02-11 04211, 2014
nikki
(which I tried to do, but after crashing my stupid image editor three times I got annoyed, gave up and then forgot about it)
2014-02-11 04206, 2014
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2014-02-11 04230, 2014
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2014-02-11 04251, 2014
ijabz
well it would be nice if this plan did exist
2014-02-11 04226, 2014
nikki
speaking of things which would be nice, did you ever do any work on adding editors to the indexed search?
2014-02-11 04236, 2014
MBChatLogger
Honey badger don't care!!
2014-02-11 04236, 2014
ijabz
no, it will get done but actually get a bit irritated by you badgering me on this now - as if this is the most important issue in mb
2014-02-11 04241, 2014
MBChatLogger
Honey badger don't care!!
2014-02-11 04241, 2014
nikki
um. I'm hardly badgering you. I asked months ago and you said you planned to do it by the end of the year
2014-02-11 04205, 2014
ijabz
u keep asking me, i aware of it
2014-02-11 04205, 2014
nikki
and it's now february, so the end of the year was two months ago.
2014-02-11 04245, 2014
ijabz
two months is a lot less overdue than mnay mb tickets worked on by paid mb constractors
2014-02-11 04205, 2014
nikki
and what's so wrong about asking if you've made any progress? for all I know you could have forgotten about it
2014-02-11 04243, 2014
ijabz
i havent forgotten
2014-02-11 04253, 2014
nikki
and how was I supposed to know that without asking?
2014-02-11 04200, 2014
ijabz
the point is you guys get paid to meetup in Chicago, the least you can do is share the decisions/discussions with the community
2014-02-11 04201, 2014
JonnyJD_
ruaok: in case you get failing paypal donation transactions in your "paypal logs", that is because Santanderbank decided small re-occuring donations are bad..
