i think with me and warp in similar time zones, i could help mentor
2012-10-10 28411, 2012
ianmcorvidae
I have some experience with haskell already, which would make warp seem the real choice
2012-10-10 28416, 2012
ruaok
ianmcorvidae's task is a most 50% working on non-get-more-money-in the door stuff
2012-10-10 28425, 2012
warp
eep!
2012-10-10 28434, 2012
ocharles
:)
2012-10-10 28438, 2012
ianmcorvidae
if we want to do ingestion in haskell, that may be a good project for me
2012-10-10 28444, 2012
ruaok
ianmcorvidae: agreed.
2012-10-10 28448, 2012
ianmcorvidae
given that it's related to getting more money in *and* something we're talking about doing in haskell :)
2012-10-10 28455, 2012
ruaok
I think we should use haskell for the ingestion stuff
2012-10-10 28412, 2012
ruaok
yes, please. support 1000%
2012-10-10 28414, 2012
ianmcorvidae
OT, vaguely related: ruaok: rollup replication stuff is on codereview if you feel like looking at that :)
2012-10-10 28432, 2012
ruaok
ianmcorvidae: I have no chance. I'd like to, but my eyes are bleeding.
2012-10-10 28440, 2012
ruaok
email comes in faster than I can read it, much less respond.
2012-10-10 28442, 2012
ianmcorvidae
no worries, just figured I'd inform you
2012-10-10 28451, 2012
ruaok
thanks. :)
2012-10-10 28456, 2012
ruaok
so, so we have two paths
2012-10-10 28411, 2012
ruaok
1. Delay NES while warp works out a prototype in haskell.
2012-10-10 28425, 2012
ruaok
2. use haskell for ingestion stuff and proceed with dal on python.
2012-10-10 28446, 2012
ruaok
does that sum up our feelings atm?
2012-10-10 28456, 2012
ocharles
those seem to be the 2 suggested paths, yep
2012-10-10 28401, 2012
warp
ok
2012-10-10 28401, 2012
ianmcorvidae
well, haskell's getting used for ingestion either way, but yes :)
2012-10-10 28430, 2012
ruaok
I think from a business and a finance perspective #1 is not good at all.
2012-10-10 28441, 2012
reosarevok joined the channel
2012-10-10 28451, 2012
warp
considering we're going to be stuck with whatever language we choose for DAL/NES for quite some time. I think we need to have properly evaluated all options. so I say #1.
2012-10-10 28409, 2012
warp
1 month isn't that much in the grand scheme of things
2012-10-10 28410, 2012
warp
:)
2012-10-10 28433, 2012
ruaok
you're not in charge of keeping everyone paid. a month is a major pain.
2012-10-10 28440, 2012
ruaok
and I know exactly the costs of that.
2012-10-10 28444, 2012
ianmcorvidae
honestly, I think #1 as well; NES doesn't need to block working on ingestion stuff, which is one of our major finance routes
2012-10-10 28417, 2012
ruaok
ocharles: if we choose #1, will you promise not to hassle me on where NES is?
2012-10-10 28433, 2012
ruaok
you fuck all this.
2012-10-10 28437, 2012
ruaok
you know.
2012-10-10 28443, 2012
ruaok
I know exactly what is going to happen here.
2012-10-10 28446, 2012
ocharles
ruaok: i'm only hassling to make sure these conversations happen and everyone is clear where we are on the map. i'll certainly know where we are on the map, so i'm fine.
2012-10-10 28402, 2012
ruaok
we spend a month on the prototype and then everyone decides to use haskell.
2012-10-10 28403, 2012
ijabz
seems tall order to get warp developing a prototype in a month if he has no knowledge of haskell to start with
2012-10-10 28418, 2012
ruaok
so lets just skip the fucking prototype and get on with it.
2012-10-10 28444, 2012
ruaok
but then I object to ingestr also being in haskell.
2012-10-10 28402, 2012
ruaok
two projects is too much. too many eggs in one basket.
2012-10-10 28435, 2012
ruaok
DAL/NES goes forward as haskell.
2012-10-10 28445, 2012
ruaok
ingestr goes forward in python so I can help.
2012-10-10 28449, 2012
ianmcorvidae
then ingestion in python? this may be my project, which means if not haskell python or perl is best
2012-10-10 28411, 2012
warp
ok
2012-10-10 28414, 2012
ruaok
ianmcorvidae: that last part was unclear to me.
2012-10-10 28417, 2012
ianmcorvidae
ingestr in python, DAL/NES in haskell is good for me
2012-10-10 28419, 2012
ruaok
are you saying perl or python?
2012-10-10 28424, 2012
ruaok
ok.
2012-10-10 28434, 2012
warp
ruaok: he is saying yes, perl or python.
2012-10-10 28437, 2012
ianmcorvidae
ruaok: I'm saying that if it's not haskell, it should be either perl or python, I'm fine with either; since you said python python is fine :)
2012-10-10 28453, 2012
ruaok
but we are NOT using haskell for anything else until we review.
2012-10-10 28426, 2012
ocharles
i'd still like to do the prototype of Data::Label. if it's good, it's not entirely throw away - we'll have a framework for serving haskell functions over http
2012-10-10 28432, 2012
ruaok
ok, final summary: DAL in haskell. ingestr in python. all new projects are subject to review.
2012-10-10 28433, 2012
ocharles
and obviously labels are not going away either
2012-10-10 28451, 2012
warp
ruaok: I'm ok with that outcome.
2012-10-10 28454, 2012
ruaok
ocharles: this DAL in haskell better fly faster than an armada of pigs.
2012-10-10 28455, 2012
ocharles
we waste a bit of work by writing a NGS view of labels, but nes still needs more planning before that truly starts
2012-10-10 28402, 2012
ocharles
ruaok: african or european?
2012-10-10 28409, 2012
ruaok
pocket.
2012-10-10 28423, 2012
ruaok
smaller footprint, ergo faster in air.
2012-10-10 28440, 2012
ruaok notes that he is really unhappy with this outcome.
2012-10-10 28447, 2012
ruaok
I think its a complex set of bad choices.
2012-10-10 28454, 2012
ruaok
but, motion carried.
2012-10-10 28458, 2012
ruaok
what is our next step?
2012-10-10 28410, 2012
ocharles
are you really happy with carrying motion on those grounds?
2012-10-10 28421, 2012
ruaok
I'm not writing that much code.
2012-10-10 28425, 2012
ruaok
you guys are.
2012-10-10 28432, 2012
ruaok
I can force my will and make you guys unhappy.
2012-10-10 28444, 2012
ruaok
one is much more likely to get things moving faster.
2012-10-10 28452, 2012
ijabz ruaok you've just joined my club then
2012-10-10 28404, 2012
ruaok
ijabz: of being unhappy? yeah.
2012-10-10 28412, 2012
ruaok
but this isn't about me.
2012-10-10 28439, 2012
ruaok
I just hope the DAL in haskell is going to walk on water, chew gum at the same time and be hot has shit to look at.
2012-10-10 28452, 2012
ruaok
ocharles: what is our next step on DAL/NES?
2012-10-10 28407, 2012
ijabz
is wasn't about me either, I have the interests of musicbrainz at heart
2012-10-10 28410, 2012
ocharles
in the grand scheme of moving parts fitting together, i'm not sure
2012-10-10 28416, 2012
ocharles
to recap...
2012-10-10 28437, 2012
ruaok
ijabz: agreed. we are in the same camp. lets go have a beer in london. :)
2012-10-10 28440, 2012
ocharles
we have a schema and a clear model of the various bits of data, and also a transformation from where we are now, to the nes schema
2012-10-10 28458, 2012
ijabz
:) sounds good
2012-10-10 28405, 2012
ocharles
the steps though... that might be getting it in read only form?
2012-10-10 28419, 2012
ruaok
ocharles: on a more meta perspective.
2012-10-10 28429, 2012
ocharles
for moving directly forward with nes, i probably need to give it a more formal look
2012-10-10 28430, 2012
ruaok
who is going to drive the next steps towards the DAL. you or I?
2012-10-10 28456, 2012
ocharles
i'm happy to provide suggestions and have them approved or rejected
2012-10-10 28408, 2012
ocharles
i suppose ultimately there's still (far too much) a lot in my head
2012-10-10 28415, 2012
ruaok
we dont really have a requirements doc for NES, do we?
2012-10-10 28423, 2012
ocharles
we have the requirement slides :)
2012-10-10 28433, 2012
ruaok
we have a requirements doc for the DAL that needs to now have questions answered and re-worked.
2012-10-10 28435, 2012
ocharles
and the requirements-y blog post
2012-10-10 28407, 2012
ruaok
I think you should take the first stab at editing the DAL doc.
2012-10-10 28425, 2012
ruaok
get all the various bits of info we already have and see if we can make a cohesive doc.
2012-10-10 28440, 2012
ruaok
then next week I can go in and make sure we're on the same page.
2012-10-10 28401, 2012
ocharles
have the requirements or anything changed much?
2012-10-10 28415, 2012
ruaok
then when we're in SLO, we can spend the entire time designings things and coming up with a clear roadmap, requirements and a spec for DAL.
2012-10-10 28422, 2012
ruaok
perhaps some designs stuff as well.
2012-10-10 28445, 2012
ruaok
ocharles: not really. there are just a lot of open things we could not answer based on the questions we've just now answered
2012-10-10 28446, 2012
warp
and some lines of code!
2012-10-10 28403, 2012
ruaok
so, we need to go back to that and edit the doc with the knowledge we have now.
2012-10-10 28414, 2012
ruaok
warp: we may just want to spend our time talking.
2012-10-10 28421, 2012
ruaok
we have tons to do and talk about.
2012-10-10 28423, 2012
ocharles
should i re answer the questions or something?
2012-10-10 28423, 2012
warp
ruaok: yes, I know.
2012-10-10 28441, 2012
ruaok
ocharles: if there are open questions that can now be answered, answer them.
2012-10-10 28454, 2012
ruaok
collect open questions and we will tackle those early next week.
2012-10-10 28411, 2012
ruaok
lets see if we can have the dal requirements done early next week.
2012-10-10 28416, 2012
ruaok
is that an acceptable goal?
2012-10-10 28426, 2012
ocharles
i'll give it a shot
2012-10-10 28432, 2012
ruaok
ok.
2012-10-10 28442, 2012
ruaok
how do we communicate our decisions today?
2012-10-10 28404, 2012
ruaok
can someone summarize this conversation and post it to mb-devel?
2012-10-10 28412, 2012
warp
sure.
2012-10-10 28421, 2012
ruaok
great, thanks warp.
2012-10-10 28427, 2012
ruaok
anything else we should cover right now?
2012-10-10 28400, 2012
ocharles
nothing from me
2012-10-10 28402, 2012
ruaok
then we're done.
2012-10-10 28412, 2012
ruaok
thanks for the battle, gentlemen.
2012-10-10 28419, 2012
warp
ruaok: it's really late though, so I'll post that tomorrow (european) morning.
2012-10-10 28422, 2012
ruaok goes to lick his wounds
2012-10-10 28427, 2012
ruaok
warp: ok
2012-10-10 28439, 2012
warp
thanks ruaok
2012-10-10 28411, 2012
ijabz
ruaok the fact you've managed to throw out Perl despite some opposition is at least something to be positive about
2012-10-10 28419, 2012
ruaok
ijabz: yes.
2012-10-10 28441, 2012
ruaok
if that was the compromise that was needed to put a boot up perl's ass, so be it
2012-10-10 28427, 2012
CatCat has a good feeling about haskell
2012-10-10 28449, 2012
CatCat
maybe one day I'll be writing in it for mb :3
2012-10-10 28459, 2012
nikki
I just hope people aren't like me :P
2012-10-10 28400, 2012
ijabz
CatCat: no offence but do you know much about that sort of stuff ?
2012-10-10 28405, 2012
hawke_1 always gets haskell and erlang confused.
2012-10-10 28425, 2012
ocharles
hawke: now with cloud haskell, you can be excused :)
2012-10-10 28416, 2012
CatCat
ijabz: I know nothing. but I have a mind for to leanr code. it is what I will probably end up doing. why do yo usay "no offence"? that automatically assumes that offence could be made?
2012-10-10 28428, 2012
CatCat
honeslty I'm to tired to read between the lines right now
2012-10-10 28454, 2012
CatCat
natta reoafk
2012-10-10 28403, 2012
reoafk
natta ;)
2012-10-10 28445, 2012
pbryan joined the channel
2012-10-10 28453, 2012
ruaok
hi pbryan!
2012-10-10 28456, 2012
pbryan
ruaok!
2012-10-10 28401, 2012
ruaok
you coming to BCN?
2012-10-10 28407, 2012
pbryan
No Barcelona for me... :-(
2012-10-10 28410, 2012
ruaok
fuss. :(
2012-10-10 28429, 2012
pbryan
Sorry.
2012-10-10 28431, 2012
ruaok hands pbryan a coverartachive as a consolation prize
