djce and I have been working on rika, I think that's later in the topic
2012-01-16 01659, 2012
ruaok
ok.
2012-01-16 01607, 2012
ruaok
lets move on to the next issues.
2012-01-16 01614, 2012
ruaok
preferences for advanced search?
2012-01-16 01617, 2012
ruaok
reosarevok!
2012-01-16 01624, 2012
warp
warp has changed the topic to: Agenda: preference for advanced search? (reosarevok), meta description for google (kepstin), Cover Art Proposal (ijabz), MBS-4031&MBS-4113 (ocharles), rika news
2012-01-16 01624, 2012
reosarevok !
2012-01-16 01630, 2012
reosarevok
So
2012-01-16 01643, 2012
reosarevok
I tend to want to use the advanced search *much* more often than the basic one
2012-01-16 01658, 2012
reosarevok
I know so does hawke_, dunno about other people
2012-01-16 01604, 2012
ruaok
me too.
2012-01-16 01615, 2012
ruaok
but are we representative of most of our users?
2012-01-16 01618, 2012
reosarevok
Probably not
2012-01-16 01622, 2012
ocharles
my hypothesis here is that the basic search is not expressive enough, and that's what needs to be improved
2012-01-16 01624, 2012
navap___
navap___ has changed the topic to: Agenda: preference for advanced search? (reosarevok), meta description for google (kepstin), Cover Art Proposal (ijabz), MBS-4031&MBS-4113 (ocharles), rika news, robots.txt (navap)
2012-01-16 01636, 2012
reosarevok
:p
2012-01-16 01641, 2012
reosarevok
(well, not *you* :P)
2012-01-16 01655, 2012
adhawkins
adhawkins has changed the topic to: Agenda: preference for advanced search? (reosarevok), meta description for google (kepstin), Cover Art Proposal (ijabz), MBS-4031&MBS-4113 (ocharles), rika news, robots.txt (navap), libmb4 (adhawkins)
2012-01-16 01657, 2012
navap___
We get a lot of people asking where their newly created artists are. They won't show up with the advanced search
2012-01-16 01609, 2012
hawke_
My opinion is that the default search should give better quality results, not specifically that I want to use advanced for the advanced features.
2012-01-16 01610, 2012
reosarevok
navap___, neither with the basic :p
2012-01-16 01610, 2012
ijabz
We discussed quite a lot earlier on, and it seems to me for some users its makes sense for basic to be default and for others advanced would make more sense
2012-01-16 01612, 2012
reosarevok
ijabz has convinced me that having a separate basic search makes sense
But I'd like to be able to have a preference in my settings to default to advanced
2012-01-16 01638, 2012
reosarevok
(off by default)
2012-01-16 01639, 2012
warp
it would be a 5 minute fix to remember the checkbox state.
2012-01-16 01640, 2012
ocharles
cookie seems simple to add
2012-01-16 01645, 2012
ocharles
yea
2012-01-16 01646, 2012
luks
which unfortunately doesn't give you access to the individual fields, like the basic MB search, but it's much smarter in general
2012-01-16 01656, 2012
reosarevok
warp, also for the search in the upper box?
2012-01-16 01601, 2012
nikki
ocharles: I *don't* want it to remember if I had the advanced box checked last time I searched :P
2012-01-16 01609, 2012
ocharles
luks: sounds nice
2012-01-16 01613, 2012
navap___
reosarevok: yes
2012-01-16 01621, 2012
warp
reosarevok: no, that doesn't have a checkbox.
2012-01-16 01623, 2012
ijabz
luks, yes artist search sorts of does this, and I am looking at actually using a DisjunctionMaxQuery which dismay is base don
2012-01-16 01629, 2012
reosarevok
warp, that's the useful one :p
2012-01-16 01631, 2012
navap___
warp: It's still doable by a hidden input
2012-01-16 01639, 2012
luks
ijabz: my primary use case are releases
2012-01-16 01643, 2012
reosarevok
(the other still requires going to the search page, I can as well click the box there)
2012-01-16 01649, 2012
luks
ijabz: or anything where I want to search in title + artist
2012-01-16 01653, 2012
navap___
warp: I had it done on my test server way back when that was the only searc hthat worked on mirrors
2012-01-16 01601, 2012
nikki
I would like to see the search improved though. not having to select the type and having it detect if I enter a valid advanced search would be nice
2012-01-16 01616, 2012
hawke_
Yes please — selecting the type is annoying and very limiting
2012-01-16 01621, 2012
warp
navap___: then it may not be obvious how to change it.
2012-01-16 01627, 2012
ijabz
Yeah, I want to extend it to releases ecetera, currently only being done for artist search
2012-01-16 01656, 2012
hawke_
er…nikki you meant advanced/basic, didn’t you…not the entity type.
2012-01-16 01618, 2012
ruaok
it sounds like there are two things to be done here: 1. revamp how we cal the current search server, including keeping state of the checkbox 2) investigating improved search back-end options.
2012-01-16 01624, 2012
ruaok
*call
2012-01-16 01634, 2012
nikki
hawke_: I mean entity type. they were two completely separate things that I think could be improved
2012-01-16 01642, 2012
hawke_
nikki: OK, then I agree.
2012-01-16 01656, 2012
reosarevok
warp, that's why it'd be more obvious with a preference! :)
2012-01-16 01630, 2012
hawke_
reosarevok: only if you know there’s a preference to change.
2012-01-16 01634, 2012
reosarevok
For the rare cases when I *don't* want to use advanced (I'm yet to find one) I can always disable it manually for that search
2012-01-16 01646, 2012
warp never uses advanced.
2012-01-16 01659, 2012
reosarevok
hawke_, if you're the kind of person who wants to default to advanced because of its uses (not because of better results) you know that
2012-01-16 01611, 2012
hawke_
IMO it’s a choice between “search that works” (advanced) and “mostly useless search” (basic)
2012-01-16 01613, 2012
reosarevok
If you don't even read the "Search" wiki page
2012-01-16 01626, 2012
reosarevok
You won't know what this "advanced" thing is anyway :)
2012-01-16 01658, 2012
ruaok
ijabz: can you please do some more research into this dismax thing and a possibly combined index?
2012-01-16 01621, 2012
ruaok
then, who wants to take on spearheading consensus on how to call the search server? preferences, remember checkboxes and the like.
2012-01-16 01622, 2012
ocharles
I think dismax is the best first step
2012-01-16 01624, 2012
ocharles
personally
2012-01-16 01636, 2012
ocharles
or something that improves basic search results
2012-01-16 01636, 2012
luks
might be hard to port it from solr though
2012-01-16 01637, 2012
reosarevok
So I'm not getting my preference, right? :P
2012-01-16 01641, 2012
ijabz
Yes, I'm already started on this :)
2012-01-16 01644, 2012
ocharles
yay
2012-01-16 01649, 2012
ruaok
ijabz: excellent.
2012-01-16 01655, 2012
ocharles
reosarevok: if we do this right, you shouldn't need to use advanced seacrh
2012-01-16 01657, 2012
ocharles
this is more my point
2012-01-16 01602, 2012
nikki
reosarevok: btw, I can make you a tiny user script to add advanced to the search box at the top if you like :P
2012-01-16 01608, 2012
ocharles
title AND artist should not be advanced :)
2012-01-16 01617, 2012
ruaok
ocharles: yes, but that is the long term solution. sounds like people want a short term fix as well.
2012-01-16 01624, 2012
reosarevok
ocharles, and barcode:XXXXXXXXXXX shouldn't either?
2012-01-16 01627, 2012
ocharles
title AND artist^5 AND (title~10 OR title~2) should be advanced
2012-01-16 01628, 2012
ijabz
ocharles, no we need both, I already went through all this an hour earlier
2012-01-16 01628, 2012
ruaok
or should we simply wait for ijabz to give his is feeback?
2012-01-16 01630, 2012
ocharles
reosarevok: correct
2012-01-16 01630, 2012
reosarevok
ruaok, I guess a script can work for now
2012-01-16 01633, 2012
ocharles
ijabz: I agree we need both
2012-01-16 01642, 2012
nikki notes that mason automatically did a barcode search when entering a barcode as a release search
2012-01-16 01642, 2012
ocharles
but advanced should be an exception, not a common need
2012-01-16 01646, 2012
the_metalgamer joined the channel
2012-01-16 01658, 2012
reosarevok
nikki, fine, that'd be a good thing then, please do :)
2012-01-16 01611, 2012
luks
there is nothing wrong with including things like that in the dismax parser
2012-01-16 01615, 2012
ijabz
well no I don't agree
2012-01-16 01615, 2012
reosarevok
(and put it on userscripts for other people who want it)
2012-01-16 01620, 2012
luks
you can have barcode, asin, etc. there
2012-01-16 01621, 2012
hawke_
ocharles: but IMO artist:Pink Floyd should not be advanced, especially if there’s typeahead suggestions
2012-01-16 01627, 2012
luks
enabled by default
2012-01-16 01628, 2012
ocharles
that's my point...
2012-01-16 01621, 2012
ocharles
it seems disjuncted max is exactly what I describe, I just didn't know there was a name for it :)
2012-01-16 01637, 2012
ruaok
ok, lets leave it as a user script for now and wait for ijabz to make recommendations on how to improve search in the future.
2012-01-16 01637, 2012
ijabz
Let me make the improvements to search results, and then we can take it form there
2012-01-16 01646, 2012
ruaok
ijabz: +1
2012-01-16 01649, 2012
warp agrees.
2012-01-16 01652, 2012
ruaok
ok, lets move on for now.
2012-01-16 01601, 2012
warp
warp has changed the topic to: Agenda: meta description for google (kepstin), Cover Art Proposal (ijabz), MBS-4031&MBS-4113 (ocharles), rika news, robots.txt (navap), libmb4 (adhawkins)
2012-01-16 01604, 2012
ruaok
kepstin-netbook, you're up.
2012-01-16 01626, 2012
reosarevok
If he's not around, I guess nikki or I or ianmcorvidae could also take this one
2012-01-16 01633, 2012
reosarevok
But if he's around that's better, so kepstin-netbook?
2012-01-16 01635, 2012
nikki
not me
2012-01-16 01643, 2012
reosarevok
Well, you can explain the problem
2012-01-16 01659, 2012
reosarevok
I don't even know if that *is* the right solution but I expect people here to have ideas :p
2012-01-16 01609, 2012
ianmcorvidae
if kepstin's not here I can explain what he was talking about at least
2012-01-16 01614, 2012
reosarevok
Please do
2012-01-16 01615, 2012
ianmcorvidae
our descriptions on google are terrible
2012-01-16 01626, 2012
ianmcorvidae
nikki was talking about some the other day which had no actual information about the release in them
"20 May 2011 ... Annotation. Annotation last modified on 2005-11-12 13:05 UTC. « ‹ 1 2 3 › » Page 1 of 3. Album. Year, Title, Rating, Releases. 1968, This Was ..." is an example description
2012-01-16 01607, 2012
ocharles
ouch. the tests I did earlier at least managed to get just the annotation
2012-01-16 01608, 2012
ianmcorvidae
kepstin found a page on google webmaster tools about setting a meta description tag; I think he wanted to suggest we generate useful stuff to put in there, to improve our search descriptions
2012-01-16 01612, 2012
ocharles
or nothing
2012-01-16 01634, 2012
ianmcorvidae
I don't remember the link, but the problem is clear, in any case
2012-01-16 01641, 2012
ruaok
sounds like a valid problem.
2012-01-16 01646, 2012
ruaok
can someone make a ticket, plz?
2012-01-16 01654, 2012
nikki
ocharles: well that artist has an empty annotation, that thanks to navap, we now display as a section on the page :P
2012-01-16 01608, 2012
warp
seems like a valuable thing. I'd say create a ticket in jira, link to the relevant google pages, and then poke developers to start working on it :)
2012-01-16 01614, 2012
ocharles
nikki: heh
2012-01-16 01614, 2012
navap___
hm?
2012-01-16 01621, 2012
ruaok
warp: +1
2012-01-16 01633, 2012
reosarevok
nikki, can you add said ticket? :)
2012-01-16 01639, 2012
ruaok
time is getting short, lets move on to CAA proposal.
2012-01-16 01642, 2012
ruaok
ijabz?
2012-01-16 01651, 2012
warp
warp has changed the topic to: Agenda: Cover Art Proposal (ijabz), MBS-4031&MBS-4113 (ocharles), rika news, robots.txt (navap), libmb4 (adhawkins)
2012-01-16 01621, 2012
ijabz
Its just general frustration about how the specification is proceeding
2012-01-16 01629, 2012
ianmcorvidae
you and me both :P
2012-01-16 01647, 2012
reosarevok
ianmcorvidae, isn't yours about how it's *not* proceeding? :p
2012-01-16 01654, 2012
ianmcorvidae
same thing :P
2012-01-16 01600, 2012
ijabz
and that I feel totally confused as to what is being proposed, and what has been considered
2012-01-16 01613, 2012
ianmcorvidae
we've been talking past each other, I'm not sure how to resolve that; I think I may ask someone else to serve as representative from here though
