my dad's old ipod touch, 8gb, which he gave me today because he wasn't using it.
2009-12-03 33751, 2009
ijabz
jira:nice to see you guys using another Java tool !
2009-12-03 33714, 2009
warp
oh no, it's java? i'm not touching it!
2009-12-03 33715, 2009
warp
j/k
2009-12-03 33727, 2009
aCiD2`
haha
2009-12-03 33733, 2009
aCiD2`
ijabz: do you have experience using jira?
2009-12-03 33746, 2009
aCiD2`
To me, it feels nicer than Trac
2009-12-03 33716, 2009
ijabz
Only as a very basic user, its used for all the Apache projects amongst other things
2009-12-03 33720, 2009
aCiD2`
has a few friction points, but the customization points (custom "link" types, custom sub-task types) I really like
2009-12-03 33724, 2009
aCiD2`
ah
2009-12-03 33735, 2009
aCiD2`
I only know it's used for the boo programming language, where I first saw it
2009-12-03 33704, 2009
nikki_
is the idea to replace trac or to use it for some stuff and trac for others?
2009-12-03 33723, 2009
ijabz
Its very widely used, is thi spart of the subversion to git thingy
2009-12-03 33735, 2009
aCiD2`
no idea at all yet :)
2009-12-03 33739, 2009
nikki_
ah
2009-12-03 33748, 2009
aCiD2`
rob just mentioned that he doesn't find trac good enough for large scale project management
2009-12-03 33708, 2009
aCiD2`
if I understood him correctly
2009-12-03 33730, 2009
nikki_
I kinda think it'd be nice if we replaced trac instead of adding yet another tool... I mean... we surely have more tools than we have developers :P
2009-12-03 33751, 2009
chirlu joined the channel
2009-12-03 33754, 2009
nikki_
at the same time, I know how trac works :P
2009-12-03 33717, 2009
warp
i like trac, but it's not suitable for what rob needs to do.
2009-12-03 33722, 2009
nikki_ nods
2009-12-03 33732, 2009
aCiD2`
nikki: well, if we went the Jira root, it would be a replacement, I think
2009-12-03 33708, 2009
nikki is reminded that she still hasn't emailed rob...
2009-12-03 33729, 2009
aCiD2`
tut tut!
2009-12-03 33755, 2009
nikki
technically I've been writing this email since we were in the summit room
2009-12-03 33704, 2009
nikki
on and off, of course, not continuously :P
2009-12-03 33711, 2009
warp
aCiD2`: not to keen on adding more proprietary stuff to our toolset.
2009-12-03 33719, 2009
warp
(jira doesn't seem to be open)
2009-12-03 33721, 2009
aCiD2` nods
2009-12-03 33726, 2009
aCiD2`
it is commercial
2009-12-03 33736, 2009
aCiD2`
but really in this area, I'm not sure we're going to find a nice tool that is open source
2009-12-03 33742, 2009
warp
I don't mind commercial, I do mind proprietary.
2009-12-03 33745, 2009
aCiD2`
ok
2009-12-03 33754, 2009
aCiD2`
I asked in #perl and the only open solutions I got were "this works, but you can definitely do better"
2009-12-03 33724, 2009
warp
I'm pragmatic enough to use anything which is obviously better than the competition. but having the source and having permission to tweak it just gets massive bonus points from me, double points if it's in a language I speak.
2009-12-03 33727, 2009
aCiD2`
oh yea, I definitely agree with you
2009-12-03 33745, 2009
aCiD2`
i very much frown upon using stuff that's not open, but given the options that are on the table
2009-12-03 33754, 2009
aCiD2`
well, it's definitely an area we have to explore more :)
2009-12-03 33722, 2009
chirlu
Hi :) Could someone perhaps point me to the current NGS server source code? I'm lost on svn.musicbrainz.org ...
2009-12-03 33730, 2009
warp
mostly up to rob anyway, I imagine he will be interacting with it most.
I have a questions about the NGS database, anyone know why is there a tracklist table, it seems to be saying that different mediums can point to the same tracklist, but that doesnt ever happen does it , there is also a trackcount field but that could simply be added as a field in the medium table
2009-12-03 33734, 2009
nikki
mediums can have titles
2009-12-03 33756, 2009
nikki
so if you have a box set, the medium might have a different title, whereas the tracklist is the same
2009-12-03 33739, 2009
navap
Any release in the live server that has more than one release event will end up as a tracklist with more than one medium pointing to it.
2009-12-03 33750, 2009
nikki
yep
2009-12-03 33726, 2009
nikki
ah yeah, and the position is attached to medium too, so a disc which was originally released on its own (position 1) could be the 10th disc in the box set
2009-12-03 33738, 2009
ijabz
I thought any release with more than one release event would end up as mutiple releases
2009-12-03 33749, 2009
nikki
yeah, but releases contain mediums :)
2009-12-03 33735, 2009
nikki
and you can release things on different formats, so that needs a different medium too
2009-12-03 33756, 2009
ijabz
yep, but Im talking about mediums , Im not convinced that mediums share tracklsts
2009-12-03 33713, 2009
ijabz
s/Im/Im not/
2009-12-03 33715, 2009
nikki fetches you an example
2009-12-03 33739, 2009
navap
They would end up as multiple NGS-releases, but a lot of them will share the same tracklist, so instead of duplicating a tracklist for each NGS-release, just point it to a common tracklist in the tracklist table.
2009-12-03 33749, 2009
aCiD2`
A CD single and digital download release are usually the same tracklist
2009-12-03 33700, 2009
aCiD2`
but there are plenty examples of multiple mediums with identical tracklists
2009-12-03 33711, 2009
ijabz
navap, ok I see thanks
2009-12-03 33744, 2009
ijabz
and why do we have trackcount, is that just an optimization
2009-12-03 33717, 2009
nikki
where is trackcount?
2009-12-03 33725, 2009
aCiD2`
Yea, optimization I believe
2009-12-03 33727, 2009
nikki
oh, tracklist
2009-12-03 33704, 2009
ijabz
because along those lines it would be very helpful if we stored the number of tracks on a release because if we are coming to a release via a recording its very awkward to calculate all the tracks on a release (because might be multiple mediums)
2009-12-03 33726, 2009
ijabz
Also I was going to request that within tracklist we stored the track position on the release as a whole because in a tagger application trying to match a track on multiple medium releases you're quite likely to want to match the track number on the release as a whole (i,e tracks 21, rather than track 11 on medium 2, first medium has 10 tracks) , but this wont work if tracklist is shared amongst multiple mediums :(
2009-12-03 33727, 2009
nikki
"track" has a position
2009-12-03 33703, 2009
navap
Why would you want to match the 11 track on the second medium as track 21? I don't think that makes much sense, or am I missing something?
2009-12-03 33718, 2009
nikki
tracklists are always the same order and track is the link between recordings (which can appear all over the place) and a tracklist
2009-12-03 33747, 2009
ijabz
yes, but its only within a medium, so if that medium isn't the first one you need to go upto release and back down to the other mediums to find where the track comes on the release as a whole
2009-12-03 33755, 2009
ijabz
Consider a release with two CD's, the first contains 10 tracks and the second 11 tracks. I think it quite possible that a user may have there existing tracks as labelled from 1-21 rather than 1-10,1-11
2009-12-03 33756, 2009
navap
Sure it might happen, but I think it would be quite rare. Do you know any ripping/tagging application that takes a second disc and doesn't start numbering at Track 1?
2009-12-03 33735, 2009
navap
It happens in the case of digital releases, but in their case they would all be on one "Digital" medium.
2009-12-03 33726, 2009
ijabz
Currently Musicbainz labels multi cd releases as release (disc 1) and release (disc 2) but in NGS won't it just be release, in which case you dont want two track ones
2009-12-03 33716, 2009
navap
I don't know how Picard will work post-NGS, but I expect it to start wrting the disc number tag.
2009-12-03 33759, 2009
ijabz
I would prefer to label my songs 1-21, I mean I don't label a Vinyl with four songs on side a and 5 songs on side b as 1-4,1-5 - I label it as 1-9
2009-12-03 33740, 2009
navap
But that's on one medium.
2009-12-03 33744, 2009
nikki
technically it's no different to what we've got at the moment...
