Style Council is just a fancy word for the musicbrainz-style mailinglist.
2010-04-05 09528, 2010
warp
subscription to the mailinglist is open to anyone, and all members of the mailinglist are on the style council.
2010-04-05 09512, 2010
warp
generally, when someone wants something changed about the style guidelines, or wants a new relationship added, they discuss this on the mailinglist
2010-04-05 09548, 2010
warp
at some point, he/she will write this down a little more formally in a proposal, this is sent to the mailinglist with RFC in the subject.
2010-04-05 09534, 2010
warp
this RFC is discussed, the probably is changed accordingly, and when discussion has died out the final version is proposed in an RFV
2010-04-05 09531, 2010
warp
at this point, unless the RFV receives a veto within 48 hours, the proposal has passed and whoever proposed it will now have to make the changes to the wiki
2010-04-05 09546, 2010
warp
xiainx: any questions so far? :)
2010-04-05 09500, 2010
xiainx
nope, that all makes sense :)
2010-04-05 09501, 2010
warp
cool.
2010-04-05 09534, 2010
warp
the two largest problems we have with this process is that it's hard for members of the Style Council to keep track of these proposals
2010-04-05 09559, 2010
warp
and it's even harder for newcomers/outsiders/people who don't read mailinglists to keep track of things and to contribute.
2010-04-05 09538, 2010
xiainx
right
2010-04-05 09504, 2010
warp
but, how we want to solve this we are not entirely sure. there are various approaches we could take, and we're all open to suggestions here too.
2010-04-05 09541, 2010
aCiD2` joined the channel
2010-04-05 09552, 2010
warp
for example, we could take the part of posting a formal proposal away from the mailinglist, and have this be part of the proposal tracker in some way.
2010-04-05 09511, 2010
warp
this could make it easier for outsiders to also leave their comments.
2010-04-05 09539, 2010
warp
but it could make it a bit harder for members of the style council, because discussion about this stuff will be split up in two places.
2010-04-05 09542, 2010
navap
Something like the audo-editor elections perhaps? A notification is sent to the mailing list, but the actual voting (and discussions in our case) is in site. Also, discussions could be sent out to the mailing list like what happens when a user adds a note to an edit.
2010-04-05 09535, 2010
warp
navap: I am by now leaning towards having the proposal + comments be outside of the mailinglist, but keeping larger discussions on the mailinglist.
2010-04-05 09547, 2010
warp
navap: proposal + comment could be something like co-ment.
2010-04-05 09524, 2010
navap
So pre-RFC discussion on the ML, and then nitpicking and tweaking in the new style app?
2010-04-05 09541, 2010
warp
navap: yes, I think I'm leaning towards that. but that's just my opinion.
2010-04-05 09549, 2010
navap
It sounds good to me.
2010-04-05 09526, 2010
warp
xiainx, navap: if you're not familiar with co-ment, please have a look at it.
Perhaps a readonly ML could be setup that gets notified abotu the status of a proposal and what comments are being made to them, that would separate the "official" stuff form mb-style that has pre-RFC discussion.
2010-04-05 09545, 2010
warp
navap: I would say have a nice rss feed for that, and include it on the musicbrainz front page, similar to the blog posts.
2010-04-05 09503, 2010
navap
RSS, nice. That would open it up to a lot more users.
2010-04-05 09538, 2010
navap
Co-ment looks nice.
2010-04-05 09539, 2010
warp
xiainx: what languages / frameworks / etc.. are you familiar with?
2010-04-05 09505, 2010
xiainx
ummm well I've used the following before:
2010-04-05 09526, 2010
navap
It also looks like it may help keep discussions focused and short.
so i was thinking maybe python/mysql kind of thing
2010-04-05 09559, 2010
xiainx
I also have to learn PHP by next september
2010-04-05 09510, 2010
warp
we're usually more keen on perl here, as you are probably aware of.
2010-04-05 09518, 2010
xiainx
okay
2010-04-05 09528, 2010
warp
xiainx: but if you for example want to integrate co-ment, python could be an option.
2010-04-05 09549, 2010
luks
wasn't the plan to get rid of perl eventually?
2010-04-05 09555, 2010
warp
xiainx: co-ment is open source and written in python. only an alpha release yet, so it may be a bit of a challenge to use it (little documentation, etc..)
2010-04-05 09556, 2010
ruaok joined the channel
2010-04-05 09511, 2010
warp
luks: no objections from me :)
2010-04-05 09517, 2010
warp
luks: unless we're moving to java ofcourse.
2010-04-05 09542, 2010
luks
if I remember correctly, we wanted to do NGS in perl because we could reuse some of the existing code
2010-04-05 09547, 2010
luks
and then switch to python
2010-04-05 09510, 2010
ruaok
heh.
2010-04-05 09558, 2010
luks
I guess that means I remember it wrong? :)
2010-04-05 09531, 2010
ruaok
no. its just very unlikely now. :)
2010-04-05 09555, 2010
warp
:)
2010-04-05 09516, 2010
warp
xiainx: anyway, to continue with feedback.
2010-04-05 09547, 2010
warp
xiainx: I would prefer to have something up and running very soon, as early as possible.
2010-04-05 09554, 2010
nikki would mostly like to have as much discussion in one place as possible
2010-04-05 09518, 2010
nikki
I know we like splitting everything up across 10 different things though :P
2010-04-05 09544, 2010
xiainx
heh, well hopefully this system will track all of the official discussion for the proposal
2010-04-05 09546, 2010
warp
xiainx: so perhaps it would be possible to start with just tracking proposals, and if time allows integrate co-ment or something similar to be able to discuss the proposals in the tracker too.
2010-04-05 09541, 2010
warp
ruaok: what are your thoughts on what kind of stack this should run on?
2010-04-05 09555, 2010
ruaok
google app engine?
2010-04-05 09500, 2010
ruaok
one less thing for us to host. :)
2010-04-05 09510, 2010
warp
ruaok: that's not open enough for me :P
2010-04-05 09523, 2010
ruaok sighs
2010-04-05 09539, 2010
warp
damn free software hippies
2010-04-05 09547, 2010
ruaok
my thoughts exactly.
2010-04-05 09549, 2010
warp
:P
2010-04-05 09503, 2010
ruaok
well, perl or java, I guess.
2010-04-05 09510, 2010
warp
ruaok: so python is out?
2010-04-05 09511, 2010
ruaok
I'm personally fond of python as you know.
2010-04-05 09524, 2010
ruaok
but we're not using it in a deployed manner.
2010-04-05 09538, 2010
ruaok
nawm python is ok.
2010-04-05 09545, 2010
warp
ruaok: I just think integrating co-ment would be valuable, and that is in python. but again, that's a direction _I_ would like.
2010-04-05 09546, 2010
ruaok
s/nawm/naw,/
2010-04-05 09519, 2010
ruaok
as long as you damn open shource hippies stay off my lawn, I'm happy.
2010-04-05 09527, 2010
warp
xiainx: I hope you have enough for now to improve your application.
2010-04-05 09549, 2010
ruaok
but, I am all for being able to tack this onto something that already does a bunch of stuff
2010-04-05 09525, 2010
xiainx
hmm I'm still kind of confused about how we're going to "track" proposalls?
2010-04-05 09551, 2010
xiainx
Like, each proposal would have space in the db and store the comments/etc. there. Then we could display it using the framework/co-ment?
2010-04-05 09506, 2010
warp
xiainx: well, start off with the simplest thing which could work.
2010-04-05 09540, 2010
warp
xiainx: for me that would be the title of the proposal, the status (RFC, RFV, passed, withdrawn, more?), and some dates.
2010-04-05 09556, 2010
warp
xiainx: and nothing else.
2010-04-05 09533, 2010
warp
xiainx: well, maybe a link to the actual proposal, which would be a wiki page.
2010-04-05 09549, 2010
xiainx
yeah, that would be the simplest one, I suppose
2010-04-05 09506, 2010
aCiD2`
warp re: "proposal + comment could be something like co-ment." thats along the same lines as what I was planning too
2010-04-05 09529, 2010
warp
xiainx: once you have that up and running, then you can start adding more features. but if I end up mentoring you, I want to see the the minimal thing working ASAP.
2010-04-05 09542, 2010
xiainx
aye aye!
2010-04-05 09548, 2010
warp
:)
2010-04-05 09524, 2010
xiainx
for the backend... any thoughts on a database candidate?
2010-04-05 09541, 2010
xiainx
i guess for the very first one, a text file would do, but that's pretty q&d
2010-04-05 09545, 2010
warp
we run postgresql for musicbrainz, sticking with that is likely a bit easier on the sysadmins.
2010-04-05 09559, 2010
xiainx
okay, easy enough
2010-04-05 09517, 2010
ruaok
actually, no.
2010-04-05 09540, 2010
ruaok
the machine that this would run on, since app engine was rejected, currently has an instance of mysql.
2010-04-05 09558, 2010
ruaok
we'd make better use of our memory footprint if we used mysql.
2010-04-05 09503, 2010
aCiD2`
hrm, have mysql improved there text field handling?
2010-04-05 09515, 2010
warp
ruaok: bah, you with all your different machines with different operating systems and different databases
2010-04-05 09519, 2010
warp
:P
2010-04-05 09533, 2010
aCiD2`
gotta say, +1 for consistency between our products
2010-04-05 09534, 2010
ruaok
dont make me have you come over here to fix all that.
2010-04-05 09541, 2010
warp
lol
2010-04-05 09501, 2010
ruaok
aCiD2: that +1 is in favor of what?
2010-04-05 09518, 2010
aCiD2`
using postgresql instead of mysql
2010-04-05 09541, 2010
ruaok
ok, fine. that box still has 2.5gb of ram free.
2010-04-05 09545, 2010
aCiD2`
is it realy that much of an issue to remove mysql and install postgres?
2010-04-05 09546, 2010
warp
let's just stick to SQL-99 and it'll work on all of them!
2010-04-05 09555, 2010
aCiD2` pillows warp
2010-04-05 09504, 2010
warp definitely deserved that
2010-04-05 09504, 2010
aCiD2`
i hope that doesn't have alternative meanings
2010-04-05 09511, 2010
ruaok
aCiD2: we need mysql for mediawiki and for the blog.
2010-04-05 09512, 2010
aCiD2`
now I really hope it doesn't
2010-04-05 09516, 2010
aCiD2`
oh I see...
2010-04-05 09518, 2010
aCiD2`
heh
2010-04-05 09520, 2010
aCiD2`
feh*
2010-04-05 09559, 2010
ruaok
I could only think of pillow biting. :)
2010-04-05 09501, 2010
warp
xiainx: feel free to poke me here on irc if you have any more questions.
2010-04-05 09508, 2010
xiainx
will do
2010-04-05 09518, 2010
aCiD2`
ruaok: if you struggling to think of something, I think we're ok :P
2010-04-05 09530, 2010
aCiD2`
struggled* ffs, where have my typing skillz gone
2010-04-05 09533, 2010
ruaok
aCiD2`: oh, no. not struggling at all.
2010-04-05 09537, 2010
aCiD2`
lol
2010-04-05 09543, 2010
ruaok
I've always suspected you to be a little "funny". :)
