Hey, nikki! How many GB do you have left of your music collection?
2006-02-14 04528, 2006
nechto13
hey nikki, good morning
2006-02-14 04513, 2006
nikki_
good middle of the night :P
2006-02-14 04519, 2006
nikki_ got a few hours sleep...
2006-02-14 04530, 2006
nikki_
BGreeNZ: of the unsorted shit or in total?
2006-02-14 04502, 2006
BGreeNZ
Dunno. Both?
2006-02-14 04529, 2006
nikki_
9.3 gigs and too much
2006-02-14 04556, 2006
fuchs
wuff
2006-02-14 04507, 2006
nikki_
mjau?
2006-02-14 04510, 2006
nechto13
nikki: is there a russian artist name capitalization standard? or should the regular russian capitalization standard be used? cause it's not being used for all artist names right now
2006-02-14 04536, 2006
nikki_
I would say that it should be covered by the capitalisation standard for russian...
2006-02-14 04538, 2006
fuchs
there is no cap ruke for artists at all
2006-02-14 04547, 2006
fuchs
and no rule as well ;)
2006-02-14 04519, 2006
nikki_
it makes sense to use language rules unless there's artist intent...
2006-02-14 04527, 2006
nechto13
how do you figure out the intent of the artist if they never use the guideline capitalization standard when they refer to themselves
2006-02-14 04530, 2006
nechto13
?
2006-02-14 04551, 2006
nikki_
if they always use the same thing, that's probably how they want it
2006-02-14 04511, 2006
nikki_
if they keep changing, they're obviously not very bothered about the capitalisation...
2006-02-14 04514, 2006
BGreeNZ
inhouseuk: If I ever managed to write a freedb to MB proxy, would FreePascal be OK?
2006-02-14 04523, 2006
fuchs
BGreeNZ: you mean a simple freedb lookup integrated in mb?
BGreeNZ: people have thought about doing that before, but I think it would only be done if it were hosted somewhere else, it would be a lot of load on mb servers for little profit...
2006-02-14 04538, 2006
inhouseuk wouldn't want to host it
2006-02-14 04543, 2006
fuchs
:)
2006-02-14 04510, 2006
BGreeNZ
How about a proxy server that runs on localhost? Can that be done?
2006-02-14 04512, 2006
fuchs
everything is possible ;)
2006-02-14 04554, 2006
BGreeNZ
Is it currently possible for a client app to take a freedb ID and either convert it into a bunch of MB discIDs, or hand it to the server to search?
2006-02-14 04529, 2006
inhouseuk
you can already hand it to the server for a search
2006-02-14 04507, 2006
BGreeNZ
Surely, then, that means we're half way there?
2006-02-14 04539, 2006
inhouseuk
the difficulty comes with squeezing the wonderful MB data into the freedb protocol without loosing anything useful - like track artists
it'll work properly, it's just truncated on display
2006-02-14 04546, 2006
BGreeNZ
How is that difficult? freedb uses "space-slash-space" as a standard separator (unfortunately, it seems it's only guaranteed to work on VA albums, so albumartists would be lost)
2006-02-14 04548, 2006
inhouseuk
that's one of my wifes favourite groups
2006-02-14 04535, 2006
flamingcow
freedb has no such standardization
2006-02-14 04544, 2006
flamingcow
it's completely up to the submitting client
2006-02-14 04545, 2006
nechto13
inhouseuk: they are legendary. i'd be surprised if she didn't like them
2006-02-14 04510, 2006
BGreeNZ
flamingcow: I beg to differ. From freedb.howto.txt:
2006-02-14 04511, 2006
BGreeNZ
DTITLE: Technically, this may consist of any data, but by convention contains
2006-02-14 04513, 2006
BGreeNZ
the artist and disc title (in that order) separated by a "/" with a
2006-02-14 04515, 2006
BGreeNZ
single space on either side to separate it from the text. There may be
2006-02-14 04517, 2006
BGreeNZ
other "/" characters in the DTITLE, but not with space on both sides,
2006-02-14 04519, 2006
BGreeNZ
as that character sequence is exclusively reserved as delimiter of
2006-02-14 04520, 2006
BGreeNZ
artist and disc title! If the "/" is absent, it is implied that the
2006-02-14 04522, 2006
BGreeNZ
artist and disc title are the same, although in this case the name
2006-02-14 04524, 2006
BGreeNZ
should rather be specified twice, separated by the delimiter.
2006-02-14 04525, 2006
BGreeNZ
If the disc is a sampler containing titles of various artists, the disc
2006-02-14 04527, 2006
BGreeNZ
artist should be set to "Various" (without the quotes).
2006-02-14 04507, 2006
BGreeNZ
TTITLEN:There must be one of these for each track in the CD. The track
2006-02-14 04509, 2006
BGreeNZ
number should be substituted for the "N", starting with 0. This field
2006-02-14 04511, 2006
BGreeNZ
should contain the title of the Nth track on the CD. If the disc is a
2006-02-14 04513, 2006
BGreeNZ
sampler and there are different artists for the track titles, the
2006-02-14 04514, 2006
BGreeNZ
track artist and the track title (in that order) should be separated
2006-02-14 04516, 2006
BGreeNZ
by a "/" with a single space on either side to separate it from the text.
2006-02-14 04522, 2006
inhouseuk
BGreeNZ: we know what it says, but how many freedb entries are actually correct
2006-02-14 04553, 2006
inhouseuk
and how many clients impliment it correctly
2006-02-14 04506, 2006
flamingcow
"should" and "convention"
2006-02-14 04522, 2006
BGreeNZ
Every client I've tried can correctly import single artist *and* "Various" CDs
2006-02-14 04509, 2006
inhouseuk
but what do they put in the artist tag on the mp3?
2006-02-14 04504, 2006
inhouseuk
and can they deal with utf-8/unicode input
2006-02-14 04521, 2006
nikki_
freedb supports utf8...
2006-02-14 04547, 2006
inhouseuk
but do all the clients?
2006-02-14 04558, 2006
nikki_
that's their problem if they don't
2006-02-14 04502, 2006
Mudcrow has quit
2006-02-14 04508, 2006
BGreeNZ
The problem seems to come when applying the TTITLEN standard to discs where the disc artist is not "Various"
2006-02-14 04543, 2006
BGreeNZ
All the clients I've seen correctly parse out the artist names, provided that either the track artists are "blank", or the disc artist is "Various"
2006-02-14 04530, 2006
MBChatLogger
Ewww! Gross!
2006-02-14 04530, 2006
BGreeNZ
Even when going back to before Gracenote took over CDDB
2006-02-14 04504, 2006
MBChatLogger
Ewww! Gross!
2006-02-14 04504, 2006
BGreeNZ
I'm logging. I don't understand 'Yes, I know Gracenote is gross! :)', BGreeNZ. Try /msg MBChatLogger help
2006-02-14 04531, 2006
BGreeNZ laughs at MBChatLogger
2006-02-14 04534, 2006
inhouseuk
awww, you've confused it now
2006-02-14 04538, 2006
nikki_
poor thing :(
2006-02-14 04522, 2006
MBChatLogger
I hate the evil empire
2006-02-14 04522, 2006
BGreeNZ
Microsoft and Gracenote can both go to hell
2006-02-14 04541, 2006
BGreeNZ is easily entertained
2006-02-14 04555, 2006
inhouseuk
obviously :)
2006-02-14 04505, 2006
BGreeNZ
lol
2006-02-14 04513, 2006
BGreeNZ
Point is, there *is* a standard for the format of freedb data. Whether any particular client follows that standard is beyond our control. It certainly won't be any worse than how they react to existing freedb data :)
2006-02-14 04517, 2006
LTjake has quit
2006-02-14 04527, 2006
UserErr0r joined the channel
2006-02-14 04518, 2006
UserErr0r has quit
2006-02-14 04534, 2006
UserErr0r joined the channel
2006-02-14 04541, 2006
BGreeNZ
inhouseuk: Do you have any other concerns about "squeezing" the wonderful MusicBrainz data into a freedb-format record? We can even provide info like year-of-release (DYEAR) and annotations (EXTD and EXTTN)
2006-02-14 04523, 2006
inhouseuk
no, just that I wouldn't want to try it :)
2006-02-14 04542, 2006
BGreeNZ
Only thing we don't have is genre, but I still don't exacty understand what that is. (I think most freedb submissions wind up under misc or rock, don't they?)
2006-02-14 04519, 2006
flamingcow
bgreenz: your time would be much better spent adding musicbrainz support to your favorite utilities
2006-02-14 04526, 2006
flamingcow
than trying to cram useful data into a messy format
2006-02-14 04503, 2006
BGreeNZ
Two words: closed source
2006-02-14 04511, 2006
flamingcow
then don't use it
2006-02-14 04515, 2006
flamingcow
your freedom is important :)
2006-02-14 04523, 2006
BGreeNZ
I generally do try to avoid closed source apps now. If MB could be used as a drop-in replacement for freedb, though, perhaps more people would use it?
2006-02-14 04537, 2006
nikki_
but that would be bad...
2006-02-14 04501, 2006
BGreeNZ
FWIW, I wasn't suggesting implementing the submission side of the protocol. That would be impossible
2006-02-14 04517, 2006
nikki_
my comment earlier still stands...
2006-02-14 04519, 2006
inhouseuk
as there are occasional load problems with the servers, we don't want to encourage even higher load
2006-02-14 04539, 2006
nikki_
especially as we wouldn't be getting anything back
2006-02-14 04547, 2006
nikki_
except high load, of course :)
2006-02-14 04505, 2006
inhouseuk nods
2006-02-14 04557, 2006
wolfsong has quit
2006-02-14 04506, 2006
BGreeNZ
I guess I can see your point there
2006-02-14 04552, 2006
MBChatLogger
I hate the evil empire
2006-02-14 04552, 2006
BGreeNZ
How do existing MB users rip and tag their CDs, then? Or, am I the only one here still stuck with Microsoft Windows?
2006-02-14 04528, 2006
ruaok
thought, it should be noted, that we have 3 servers now. next week we'll have 7. :-)
2006-02-14 04548, 2006
usererr0r\sleep\ has quit
2006-02-14 04555, 2006
ruaok
that I would hope will make the site a little more snappy and resistant to load spikes.
2006-02-14 04508, 2006
ruaok
however, just being a drop in replacement for freedb is still not a good idea
2006-02-14 04524, 2006
ruaok
that is, if I can figure out which rails to buy for our hodgepodge of servers
2006-02-14 04524, 2006
ruaok chalks himself up a chatkill point
2006-02-14 04557, 2006
BGreeNZ
So, the concern here is that, if existing apps could be used to lookup and tag with MB, we wouldn't get anything back?
2006-02-14 04506, 2006
inhouseuk
yup
2006-02-14 04527, 2006
ruaok
the idea is that when we do something, it should benefit the end users and the project.
2006-02-14 04505, 2006
ruaok
something that puts nothing but load on our servers and gives the end users something is not maintable in the long
2006-02-14 04508, 2006
ruaok
run
2006-02-14 04534, 2006
BGreeNZ
I agree there. However, the user would still have to find the MB project, and be interested enough to use it.
2006-02-14 04538, 2006
BGreeNZ
Then, if they care enough to use it, they will want to contribute to it.
2006-02-14 04520, 2006
nikki_
ohhhh. is blümchen a little flower?
2006-02-14 04548, 2006
inhouseuk
I think if the interface was implimented, the news would spread very quickly and freedb client users would just change the server name to point to it.
2006-02-14 04518, 2006
inhouseuk
I doubt they would contribute very much in return
2006-02-14 04521, 2006
BGreeNZ
BTW, how is this any different from someone using the tagger (or Picard) to tag their music collection? What do we get back from that?
2006-02-14 04546, 2006
nikki_
they have to interact with the server to do that
2006-02-14 04554, 2006
nikki_
so they're more likely to fix mistakes
2006-02-14 04559, 2006
inhouseuk
and it nags for a donation
2006-02-14 04522, 2006
ruaok
nikki_: yes
2006-02-14 04534, 2006
BGreeNZ
A proxy could do the same thing, couldn't it?
2006-02-14 04555, 2006
nikki_
bwa. it only occured to me just now, for some reason.
2006-02-14 04511, 2006
ruaok
BGreeNZ: yes, we've talked about setting up proxies like that
2006-02-14 04522, 2006
ruaok
but it comes back down to hosting costs -- who will bear them?
2006-02-14 04559, 2006
ruaok
at the beginning of next year, it will cost us $1000/month to host MB.
2006-02-14 04516, 2006
ruaok
thats a fair chunk of change that needs to be coughed up.
2006-02-14 04517, 2006
BGreeNZ
I suggested that such a proxy could run on localhost, rather than being hosted on the server
2006-02-14 04543, 2006
nikki_
how would that work?
2006-02-14 04549, 2006
ruaok
sure. but what is that proxy going to talk to?
2006-02-14 04557, 2006
nikki_
I suppose I could do it, given I have a replicated server...
2006-02-14 04501, 2006
nikki_
but most people?
2006-02-14 04558, 2006
ruaok
if we're to make a livecd that boots, downloads the data and jacks itself into a replicated mirror network, maybe.
2006-02-14 04501, 2006
BGreeNZ
The proxy would talk to the MB servers, wouldn't it?
2006-02-14 04518, 2006
inhouseuk
that would create too much load
2006-02-14 04526, 2006
ruaok
yes, but who pays for that extra traffic?
2006-02-14 04519, 2006
BGreeNZ
What if a MB login were required to use it, just like the tagger?
