#musicbrainz

20 aud = 15.10044 usd

there are cheaper ways of buying japanese CDs than buying them from amazon.co.jp

I find Melbourne to be a very flat city.

flat? it's got a few hills here and there... not that you can spot them for all the buildings on top of them, as far as the eye can see... =)

I meant buildings :)

Where are you these days, MartinRudat?

martin: NYC is quite tiny. you can walk from one end to the other quite easily in an afternoon

Ah

yllona: you'd probably need a few days to cross melbourne on foot, I'd think.

most of the cities on the north eastern coast of the US are quite small area wise

washington dc, NYC (manhattan), and boston are very small compared to cities west of the mississippi river. Chicago and St. Louis a re large

then you'd do fine in los angeles

she doesn't

http://www.last.fm/tag/jazz <-- someone seems to think so, though. *shrugs*

martin: use my personal tag radio for jazz

or "acid jazz source" which is a little more broad

"jazz" is a mix of vocal and instrumental, "jazz vocal" is straight vocals, and "jazz instrumental" has no vocals

luks, use the proxy

hmm, proxy?

ah, found it

luks last.fm player is only using 4.5% of my CPU

hmm... vorbisgain 66% lastfm 10.1% Xorg 6.1% xmms 4.3%?

looks like it's stable at 4.9% for me

hmm, this last.fm proxy thing is cool

thanks yllona!

luks: yes very

you're welcome

hmm, this link phase needs changing. "is a performance name for the person" - 'the person' is not needed in it

martin: the "acid jazz source" is for songs that have been sampled in hip-hop or R & B, or quoted in other material, either directly or as an influence

yllona: ah, 'twas wondering how that name came about.

inhouseuk: why not?

"is performance name for the person/group" ?

ah, well acid jazz, is a highly debated "genre" anyway. but let's just say that it's a more rock or pop influenced style of jazz, with out being "smooth jazz" which is just instrumemntal pop music (or muzak)

group is not allowed

Shepard: because it isn't only applicable to people

inhouseuk: "is performance name for artist

wait i thought group was allowed

in the current definition it is only for persons

You started it Martin!

Nyght: I know. I think this is how some people who I talk at about computers must feel... =)

Shepard: why isn't group allowed. It should be, groups can easily perform as a different name for a period of time. If groups arn't allowed, you should be allowed to create it

well this link is wrong. and I'm against using this link type for group-group ARs

Shepard: so what link type would you use?

at the moment link the band members to both and link through the annotations

and there are also a few mis-leading things in http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/PerformanceNameStyle

for instance: "This is to ensure that people know which artist a relationship should use, and that they don't have to duplicate relationships. With a person, the general rule is that when in doubt, relationships should use the LegalName."

this implies that the legal name should be a member of a group. When in practice the performace name is used

and bands do have "legal nanmes"

*"legal names"

Freddy Mercury isn't a member of Queen?

hmm... 'when in doubt'? I suppose that would cover it...

martin: he was until he died

MartinRudat: I'm more refering to Sting being a member if the Police

of

I also disagree with "Instead, we should probably merge the two artists, with "The Jacksons" becoming an alias of "The Jackson 5". This will have the unfortunate side-effect of obliterating information about which albums were credited as "The Jacksons" and which as "The Jackson 5"."

It is completely wrong to merge The Jacksons and The Jackson 5

those are two diffrent bands wwith different personnel

exactly

<inhouseuk> this implies that the legal name should be a member of a group. When in practice the performace name is used <- it does not imply this in my eyes. and it's not only in practice that the performance name is used but there's also a guideline

http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/MemberOfBandRelatio... is quite clear about this

(although this is a stupid guideline)

in that case it should say there are exceptions such as ..... giving a link to the relevent documentation. newbies would read that document and not know the difference

if it should so then edit the page :)

in fact a lot of the guidelines are confusing for inexperienced users

Shepard: why's it stupid?

MartinRudat: because the guideline simply says "always use the performance name" and lets no room for exceptions. in fact there are lots of exceptions though

ah! so it's another document that needs some work :)

for example if someone performed under their legal name in a band and then started a solo career under a performance name - in my eyes we should link the legal name to the band then

the performance name should have some relation to the band

wouldn't the date at which they started to use the performance name take that into account

everyone would say Bono of U2, so this is a clear case

Shepard: i agree, this will greatly clarify DJs as example

well you could either change the wording of the guideline - or abolish it. in my eyes it is too restrictive - it should be decided anew for every case

if they only performed as "performance name" after the break up of the group, only the legal name would be a member of the group anyway

DJs seem to change perforrmance names at the drop of a hat (or mic)

but I said all that when it was created so I guess noone will listen to me now :)

so it's an area that needs reviewing

yllona: yeah, that area is a hell

http://musicbrainz.org/artist/a343493e-42f5-47c... <- see!

the name used in the memberofgroup should be the one they are known as whilst in the group

inhouseuk: and bands performing under other names at the same time are just one problem. there are bands that change their name for different reasons (don't like the old one any more, legal issues, ...) - sometimes combined with line-up changes sometimes not

true

Jefferson Airplane vs Jefferson Starship ?

martin: diffrent personnel

and for those the performance relationship type doesn't work anyways

ah. kinda wondered about that.

...but never enough to actually go find out.

Shepard: combining the performance name relationship with dates would handle most of it. Even if they used different names at the same time

mod-files?

ah

there are some blasphemers who convert them into .wav, and tag 'em, so... =)

MBChatLogger: off

is not logging

is logging

that is 100% legal

some votes on http://musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=4874949 please

I'll remove the AR, but it's certainly an area for discussion and some of those styleguides need clearing up

Hmm, are you sure this is the right way to solve this?

no, but I've been told it's wrong and at the moment I don't have the time to discuss/argue the point

The fact tha they changed their name is wrong?

Well, never mind.

some votes here please, so the other mods will pass without extensive discussion: http://musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=4874968

intgr: apparently that AR type should only be used for 'people'. I think it is actually a perfect use for it on that group. It isn't two groups, it's one that used a shortened name after the first few years

inhouseuk: good example for an alias: http://musicbrainz.org/artist/06592800-cef6-442...

inhouse - who entered that relationship - all I did was enter an annotation

Joan_W: I entered it

oh - okay

anyone know if djce is on during the week?

I was beginning to wonder if I was going daft and had entered something without realising it

some random examples of linking legal name to band: http://musicbrainz.org/showrel.html?id=82681&am... - http://musicbrainz.org/showrel.html?id=321130&a... - http://musicbrainz.org/showrel.html?id=206907&a... a lot of people would protest if we had to use the performance name there :)

wolfsong: he was here a little earlier and he normally responds to mail

he was on a couple of hours back, but I dunno if he's 'in' regularly...

inhouseuk: thanks

Shepard: the group alias situation could be handled with a performance AR in both directions

or have a different AR type of "Is a different name for"

for the example of a group shortening their name after some years - it would sound very strange to use "performs as" there because it wasn't at the same time

Shepard: that's why I used the dates