#musicbrainz

AmericanDog is now known as HairMetalAddict

BrianFreud: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/CoverArtSites

go nutz!

Isn't the plural of moose moose?

as far as I know.

and to think... that's only the start... next up are the a-team and knight rider apparantly ; _________;

It's sad that they're being ravished so.

Ruoak: You rock!

Did you get the related article about the google decision I sent you?

haha, http://cdbaby.name/mb-is-ok.html :)

BrianFreud: did you send that to gmail? if so, please use rob [at mb] instead.

warp: yep, derek is cool!

no contact letter yet :/

not sure, sent it via the "send email" link in your profile :P - google just won a very related case on weds http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-google17m...

saw that. I'm quite happy about that. :)

:)

and quite happy with what our lawyer said.

google's just rocking in all sorts of ways this week :)

Google's pretty much always rocking in all sorts of ways, IMHO.

not always.

google does have some shady deals with certain governments or goverment organizations in some countries.

the whole China thing... but normally they really rock :)

not just china.

BrianFreud: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2007/03/14/go...

warp: Pretty much always != always

Freso: well... theres are just the deals we know about.. </paranoid>

;)

warp: Well, I must say that I'm fairly confident that the deals Google has about are justifiable.

the one i linked here isn't justifiable IMO.

damn. I hate processes the run for 7 hours and THEN fail. :-(

"One email request is all that google needs to turn over IP of anybody running hate group against India or eminent personalities of the country."

warp: Where is that?

eep, just closed the tab. one of the links about the google + mumbai police deal.

ofcourse they probably are forced by law to supply the IP address of certain people in many other countries too, doesn't mean they should make it _that_ easy for a random police official to get that information :)

BrianFreud: you there?

warp: True. But then again, I'm not too scared. I'm pretty confident that Google won't let them have all the information on anything just by an e-mail. I'd think they'd at least give the content in question a look over first.

yes

cooperaa_away: what's up?

uh I just wanted to leave you a comment and I suppose I could have on the edit

Freso: you _think_ :) i'm not as trusting. i do think in general google isn't evil, but it doesn't hurt to keep an eye on this :)

s/this/things/

I think in this case proof isn't necessary (it'd be nice) but the user has attached a disc id, used proper capitalization (wow!), and has entered the catalog number

(sorry, I can't send PMs because my nick isn't reg'd)

no prob

Oh, I agree - but do you know how many with that detail of info that I found typos in just this morning?

that's why I went straight to a yes edit

never hurts to have a second set of eyes on a tracklist :)

:) fair enough, and we each have our own perception of what is enough proof :)

oh, I'll not vote no for no proof - just not yes without it :)

fair enough

speaking of edits, I need some help with http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=6892357

japanese release capitalization

I hate the evil empire

warp: Agreed. But I'm generally more gullible. :p Also, while I greatly distrust entities which have a history of bad behaviour (Microsoft, the Danish government, etc.), I do tend to reward trust to those who (appear to) behave nice.

ugh... another of the damn "japanese but English" releases

BrianFreud: ooh! link!

cooperaa_away: I agree with your point, but just got done with 5 or so similar arguments about it

warp: the one cooperaa_away just linked to

like how we change "A Tout Le Monde" on all Megadeth albums to "A tout le monde"

I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'The Danish goverment, you mean'

*government

cooperaa_away: I agree. Like I said on the mailing list, if they really want us to ignore all rules of English, just because it's a japanese release, then RFP a "English:Japanese Rules" Language option

kerensky made an excellent post about the japanese stuff on the mailling list, .. i need to find some way to put that to use.

I read the japanese exception wiki page

It's not like I can use a similar argument for English caps for a French titled track on an English release - I still have to follow French rules for caps on that track

which says that in some cases CAPS LOCK is used consistently

perhaps I just don't get it because all releases I have with titles printed in CAPS on the back are just automatically assumed to just be for "style" and have no bearing on the title of the song

exactly

*er, rather gently places it so as to not spill

at the barest minimum they ought to leave a "Japanese release rules" note in the add

cooperaa_away: that page is misleading IMO

I don't know how anyone else does it, but I have a saved link on my wiki for "new english releases I've not yet voted on". If I see a release that claims to be English, especially if it has an artist whose name is also in Latin script (not unicode), then I assume it's English. If they want to argue with that, fine - but why does this one class get to get away with it? We don't do it for any other language

It's like having a generalized ArtistIntent rule that anyone can claim anytime, for not one artist, but an entire country

BrianFreud: well yes, that's what you get with different cultures and such :)

And if they want that, then ok. But RFP a new language setting - don't force English users to ignore the rules of the English language setting

and definitely don't get rude or indignant when those same users DO try to enforce the rules of the English setting :P

BrianFreud: for this particular release, it is set to kanji/kana isn't it?

warp: yes, but that's sketchy in itself since all but one track title is english

It is now - but I can go and pull 20 such examples that are set to Latin/English, and all added in the alst 3 days

and the cover is completely english

cooperaa_away: yes, that's enough for me. I expect 'latin' to only contain latin.

Beat FM, Musicrusaders, Masked Superstar DJ version, Stereo, "On Air"

BrianFreud: please do :)

SEGA

As I say, if they want it this way, set it to something non-English (as this one is), and ignore the fact its not really in Japanese script

SEEEEEEGAAAAAAAA

Thought I wonder if that would break some taggers

Japanese/Latin would seem more appropriate for this release than Japanese/Kanji & Kana

seriously see this artist: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?...

99% of tracks are english

yup

why don't they follow english caps?

I just got in a huge argument with Sturla last week over another set

The discs even had US release events - but he claimed ArtistIntent and used English/Latin

there's got to be a peaceful way to resolve this :)

I'd suggested new language "English; Japanese Ruleset" on the mailinglist

didn't seem to go anywhere

BrianFreud: i'm planning to automatically prefer latin releases over kanji/kana releases in my tagger,.. for vfat and other nasty file systems.

BrianFreud: i don't know if that is the intended purpose of those character set settings, but i would prefer latin to ALWAYS be just latin.

well, that one release shows how that's not the best rule...

It's breaking the 50:50 rule, for one

hm, there is a 50:50 rule? :)

If I tried that for a release with 9 tracks in English and 1 in Russian, and tried setting it to cyrillic, do you think my edit would pass?

BrianFreud: i would vote yes.

BrianFreud: i don't have _all_ the mb style guidelines in my head.

:)

lol

but then, what about the reverse?

9 tracks in Russian, one in English, set to Latin?

hmm, good argument

BrianFreud: well, for kanji/kana, it is normal for latin characters to also appear. so that's easy for japanese. :)

BrianFreud: anything which contains non-latin characters should go to whichever non-latin character set is used most, but that's my opinion, from the POV of someone using that data in a tagger :).

but you somewhat prove my point there - you didn't comment about this concept when applied outside of Kanji & Kana. So if it's unique to Japanese/Kanji & Kana, then let's stop forcing English speakers to ignore the rules, let's create a specific "English for Kanji & Kana" option.

BrianFreud: hm, i think i missed something in that line of thought.

if it is normal for latin chars to appear in Japanese, then either a Japanese-rules release that is entirely (or even partially) using English, or at least Latin characters, ought to either be set to "Japanese" or more appropriately, "English for Kanji & Kana".

If they choose to set it to English, then they ought to be following the rules for English. AND when English speakers go to correct it to English rules, because it is set to English, there ought to not be some generic ArtistIntentForJapaneseOnly rule that can be used at will.

If I tried that with dmppanda, for example, and claimed that english rules ought to be used for a release all in French by an English speaker, he'd laugh in my face. So why is it different when a Japanese artist does it?

gah, too many windows.

Please let me know if you guys come to any conclusion

I have to pack :P

heading home for the long weekend

brianfreud, releases from japan in english get a waiver for unknown reasons

i've never understood this either

cooperaa_away: under the current rules, I'd say you have to revert. At least they didn't set that one to English.

ojnkpjg: yeah - that's the waiver I'm arguing out to be revoked :P

okay well I'll revert for now

some peopel get very angry when you change things to comply with guidelines for english

and assert artist intent

yes

which doesn't fly anywhere else :/

i don't get it, but i don't care enough to fight about it, either

but us English speakers tend to be rather annoyed when non-English speakers set something to English, then tell us to ignore when they break all the rules of English

gets rather annoying when you read through new add release edits with no notes, fix them, then have someone bitch and moan about Japanese ArtistIntent

tell me about it :)

BrianFreud: if it is set to japanese with latin, it's probably a transliteration, and there are probably rules for transliterating japanese into english,.. which i don't really care about. but the tracks being transliterated certainly isn't artistintent, so that doesn't apply.

AFAIK, you don't transliterate one language into another - you transliterate a script into another (e.g., kanji to latin).