yllona is listening to Act I: Best of all Possible Worlds (Dr. Pangloss, Candide, Maximillian, Ensemble) by Leonard Bernstein from Candide (1956 Original Broadway Cast Recording) (1956) (0:31 / 3:24.772994995117)
2008-02-22 05324, 2008
yllona
where pangloss, candide &maximillian are characters
(it is just missing the namespace declaration - i ll put it on the mo wiki)
2008-02-22 05306, 2008
yllona
now for the characters, i have to dig up each CD, can you give me a few moments
2008-02-22 05313, 2008
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2008-02-22 05305, 2008
yllona
yvesr: this will make an excellent template for musical theater and opera. you have the same components: composer, conductor, librettist, orchestra, cast of characters, and the performers who portray those characters
2008-02-22 05325, 2008
yllona
does that make sense?
2008-02-22 05344, 2008
yvesr
yllona: yes
2008-02-22 05301, 2008
yvesr
we might want to put some new terms in MO to tackle the notion of "characters" though
2008-02-22 05325, 2008
yllona
yvesr: yes, "roles"
2008-02-22 05331, 2008
yvesr
it'd be great if you could post such a use-case to the MO mailing list, so that we can work on it and figure out what's missing
2008-02-22 05326, 2008
yllona
sure thing, i have some quiet time next week, and i'll take CDs with me... i'm house/dog sitting for friends
2008-02-22 05335, 2008
yvesr
cool:)
2008-02-22 05322, 2008
yllona
i'll take works that have been recorded innumerable times... like bizet's "carmen", etc
2008-02-22 05307, 2008
yllona
madame butterfly, west side story, and of course the most recent example "sweeney todd"
2008-02-22 05312, 2008
yllona
with sweeney you have the 1979 broadway original, the 2005 revival, and now the movie in 2007
2008-02-22 05355, 2008
yllona
for sweeney each of the productions is very different, as is the cast (but not the roles)
rdfs:label "1956 Original Broadway Cast Recording"; should be broken out to something akin to LocationProposal + Roles
2008-02-22 05329, 2008
yllona
brianfreud: hey yvesr whipped this up in seconds -- totally on the fly
2008-02-22 05334, 2008
brianfreud
:)
2008-02-22 05305, 2008
yllona
and he's not a musical theater or classical kind of guy
2008-02-22 05327, 2008
brianfreud
1956 is the date, Broadway is the generalized location (then tied to a specific theater by Location Proposal), Original/Revival/New would be attributes to cast, and Recording would be an attribute as to whether it was a studio or live recording by that cast
2008-02-22 05357, 2008
yvesr
hello :-)
2008-02-22 05303, 2008
brianfreud
:)
2008-02-22 05304, 2008
yllona
but yvesr captured the good stuff, overture, movements, etc
2008-02-22 05308, 2008
brianfreud
yup
2008-02-22 05327, 2008
yvesr
brianfreud: you can add the spatial location by using event:place from the performance resources to, say, a geonames geographic resource
and there is a Recording term in MO to capture, well, information about the recording :-)
2008-02-22 05359, 2008
yvesr
brianfreud: no
2008-02-22 05302, 2008
yvesr
will take a look now
2008-02-22 05306, 2008
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2008-02-22 05324, 2008
yllona
yvesr: are you familiar with ISRC codes?
2008-02-22 05324, 2008
yvesr
oh!
2008-02-22 05328, 2008
yvesr
nice!!!
2008-02-22 05329, 2008
yvesr
yllona: a bit
2008-02-22 05336, 2008
yvesr
there is a mo:isrc property in mo
2008-02-22 05312, 2008
yvesr
brianfreud: that's *really* nice
2008-02-22 05315, 2008
brianfreud
:)
2008-02-22 05325, 2008
yllona
yeah. that's what the "music industry" knows and they are unique identifiers for recordings (and associated trivia)
2008-02-22 05332, 2008
yvesr
do you mind if i introduce the missing terms in MO, from your diagram?
2008-02-22 05340, 2008
brianfreud
that's the framework I've been trying to base a rewritten CSG on, so anything in there can be mapped with CSG
2008-02-22 05350, 2008
yvesr
cool, i see
2008-02-22 05307, 2008
brianfreud
it's free for anything anyone can use it for :)
2008-02-22 05333, 2008
yllona
brianfreud & yvesr : hah. i love i making introductions :P
2008-02-22 05333, 2008
yvesr
that's really great work, thanks brianfreud :)
2008-02-22 05342, 2008
brianfreud
np
2008-02-22 05358, 2008
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2008-02-22 05312, 2008
brianfreud
To be honest, my sense on CSG is that it's a massive clusterf***, based on trying to map a database's worth of data about a classical work to a single track name.
2008-02-22 05321, 2008
brianfreud
But! It's better than the alternative,
2008-02-22 05344, 2008
yvesr
rewrite the whole db schema ? :)
2008-02-22 05349, 2008
brianfreud
which is chaotic entry of whatever's on a liner, which 20-30% of the time isn't sufficient to even actually ID the work, let alone the version of te work.
2008-02-22 05329, 2008
brianfreud
lol, I would love "generic work instances" - a concept above luks' track masters concept, where we could store the actual work, in theory, apart from any recording,
2008-02-22 05351, 2008
yvesr
brianfreud: at first glance at your diagram, it looks like most of the missing bits in MO are related to movements - i ll give a try at fixing that
2008-02-22 05357, 2008
yllona
brianfreud: as i have mentioned numerous times. grove's is definitive.
2008-02-22 05319, 2008
brianfreud
then tying the instances (recordings) of each work back to the generic - then it matters little what we title it, as you, I , etc can construct our own favorite naming scheme locally.
2008-02-22 05339, 2008
yvesr
brianfreud: you're right
2008-02-22 05300, 2008
brianfreud
yllona: Groves is a useful guideline, but I am rereading Grove's guide to Mozart now, and it's far from comprehensive. (have noticed a few errors, due to the fact it's 20+ years old)
2008-02-22 05310, 2008
yvesr needs to run out, sorry about that
2008-02-22 05314, 2008
yllona
yvesr: i have two versions of *very* popular opera on my desk to use (no searching round) to use as test case
2008-02-22 05334, 2008
yvesr
yllona: cool :)
2008-02-22 05348, 2008
yllona
brianfreud: my grove's is 2006 ;)
2008-02-22 05357, 2008
brianfreud
guide to music, or guide to Mozart?
2008-02-22 05344, 2008
yllona
brianfreud: i have subscriptions to guide to jazz, guide to music, guide to african american history, guide to women in music, etc
2008-02-22 05348, 2008
brianfreud
for classical, I would say the groups dedicated to that composer are the definitive source - the groves books on each source mainly from that data, just at a distance of 1-3 decades
2008-02-22 05316, 2008
brianfreud
oh, you mean the montly, I'm referring to the book series they print on classical
2008-02-22 05351, 2008
yllona
brianfreud: you can get grove's online free from your local university/college or the public library
2008-02-22 05319, 2008
brianfreud
sure, but for classical, I would consider the societies working on urtext scores to be the definitive; NMA, the JSBG, etc
2008-02-22 05328, 2008
yllona
brianfreud: yeah, the printed books lag a bit.
2008-02-22 05338, 2008
yllona
i still collect them though ;)
2008-02-22 05342, 2008
brianfreud
:)
2008-02-22 05336, 2008
yllona
oh, and grove's is adding a guide to "popular music" this year, and the online service is being completely revamped -- soft launch fall 2008
2008-02-22 05344, 2008
brianfreud
fun :)
2008-02-22 05314, 2008
brianfreud
I still consider the urtext scores to be the better source, but I will take Groves if I can't get those scores :)
2008-02-22 05348, 2008
yllona
i must say, the grove's jazz guide much more comprehensive than i expected -- tho notat launch, it's been a few years now. but yeah -- good stuff
2008-02-22 05336, 2008
brianfreud
groves is great about the well known (anmd lesser known) works, but when it comes to the real obscurities, or the works that have really confusing histories, I find Groves either just doesn't mention them, or they glance over it with a mention, without actually providing clarity
2008-02-22 05337, 2008
yllona
yep. when in doubt read the score. that's my motto
2008-02-22 05341, 2008
yllona
brianfreud: i gotta say that grove's is doing a much better job on contemporary or obscure composers. really check the online offerings
