#musicbrainz

hey brian

hey

thanks for you help yesterday

np

it worked a treat

VERY cool app

scanned against and internal then external database.. was nice and fast

BrianFreud: never underestimate madonna's ability to completely dominate the charts... this is her last album for WB, so she'll go all out, including a tour. and her fan-base (especially among the geighs) is still quite rabid

I just popped in my folder with 3,337 files

scanned and renamed

all done :)

glad it worked out for ya

me too

I was getting very frusterated

I had little patience

I'm sure picard is much better than I give it credit for

I was just getting frusterated with it

yllona: oh, I definitely think she still has the draw power - just look how she headlined over everyone at 7-7-7. I just think she's also on her way out; ala Michael Jackson circa Black or White

BrianFreud: yep. on that we agree. but i also thought that about her a few years ago, and she bounced back.

still a good album or two left, but none as good as what's already out...

for madonna, it's all about the videos -- always has been.

yes, but lol, even she has to pass the Milf stage at some point XD

Smooth Criminal. <3

and the tour. i don't even like her music but the shows are really incredible

you saw that bette midler has taken vegas by storm? great reviews and great attendance. madonna has many of the same qualities on stage, but not the same amount of talent :)

main problem for Madonna I think... Bette has stayed pretty solid to one concept. Madonna on the other hand seems to reinvent herself every few years... and you can only do that so many times before either 1) you grab the wrong "next thing" or 2) your fans just get tired of your ever-changing styles

Material Girl used to make me carsick.

I think Janet Jackson had that same type of problem

</contribution>

FauxFaux: yes. janet has the same problem. great show tho.

FauxFaux: there are som e great janet clips on the 'tubes.

*concert clips

MBChatLogger: off a sec

is not logging

is logging

the Madonna only has 7 votes :P

jack johnsin? i prefer ben harper or amos lee if i'm gonna take that route. to be honest i prefer a couple of the unknown locals here in LA for that style of music -- noting that Jaack Johnson and Ben Harper are LA locals :)

totally out of my normal, but I do admit I like Justice :)

haen't even heard of the last 4 on the list

madonna only has 7 votes now... she's the control freak from HELL -- so no leaks to the interwebs (yet)

meh, there's gonna be WAY too much pressure for a leak on that one, it'll leak

she'll go completely batshit if the "leak" isn't choreographed the way she wants. no kidding. noone on her payroll would *dare*

there are just some things you don't fsck with -- one of them being madonna's need for control ;)

BrianFreud: you didn't see a whitney houston release this year?

not with a release date yet

yeah, that's the buzz around town. still more work to be done

but as for Madonna, even if it waits her control, once it hits the mfg plants, that's where most leaks happen

and she can't control that

BrianFreud: yep. so that will drop as alate as possible. even if there's not enough CDs to meet initial orders

the main problem will be advance copies to radio & clibDJs

*club Djs

yes, but most leaks these days come from the plants pressing the advance copies

quite easy, at least in theory, to stamp one perfectly good disc as a reject, and slip it out the door of the plant

yep. so maybe no advance copies? this wuld be nothing new....

and madonna could pull that maneuver off -- hand delivering copies to clubs, etc.

yes, but someone has to make those copies ... and I can't really see her running a pressing plant all on her own

true. but you can do a private pressing for less than 5000 copies

sure, but there again you have to problem that someone has to make those copies, unless you make them youself

like i said wait until the last possible moment

ruaok: I'm off to bed, but for whenever you might see this... In your opinion, what are the browsers the site ought to support, and how old a version? (ie, what 4.0 elements / css / etc should MB be designed for, at a oldest minimum?)

if it degrades gracefully it should work in any browser...

yes, but some elements / css actually implements wrongly in older browsers

ie, they were such borked implementations, they don't degrade, they break.

for any given 4.0 element you could name, and some from even 3.0+, name an older browser - say IE 5 - and you can find all sorts of funky things that go wierd

but it also defines the element set that we even ought to use - just one example, should <fieldset> be used? IE 6, FF 1.5, and Opera 8 all support it, earlier versions don't

and what do earlier versions do?

depends on the browser and version

some degrade, others simply view a fieldset section of a form as not part of the form at all

but it's a pretty basic question: how old do we consider to be too old? how wide/narrow/tall/short a page, minimally, should things be designed for?

heh...

luks has said he uses mb on his mobile sometimes

and I bet other people have multiple large monitors

it also defines how far we want to go to try to still make things work - how many hacks do we have to build in? If we still want things to look "right", and not degraded, in IE 7 that's one thing. If we're aiming at IE 5, or Netscape 3 gold, that's a totally different thing.

yes, but when you look at handling mobiles, do we design the normal page to still somehow work on a mobile, or do we instead define 800x600 as the smallest "monitor page" and define a separate mobile 75x75 layout, etc

so just looking for the basic params for what we're actually looking at redesigning for; what browsers, how old, and what devices

*display devices

(just a few examples: The current site uses some elements which were already depricated in 3.0, not in 4.0, and would prevent validation if also using 4.0 or 5.0 elements; microformat use/avoidance; form elements - cleanly degradable or 4.0 blind/deaf accessible?; what doctype are we trying to validate against; what screen size; etc...)

and with that, off to bed :)

which elements does it use that are deprecated?

center, dir, font, isindex, and menu are all used at least once

and the 5.0 draft also depricates applet, big, tt - each of which I think is used - and noscript which is definitely used

but say we're trying to validate for XHTML 1.0 Strict - that would then mean no applet, basefont, center, dir, frame, frameset, iframe, isindex, menu, nextid, noframes, s, strike, or u.

Most we can live without, and any we do use we can duplicate with css, but by doing so with css, it then is more borked in the degraded version which supports the element, but not css

or aim for XHTML 2.0 Strict's draft and you lose i, b, tt, etc as well, with the same kinds of issues

and now seriously to bed :D

em, strong...

neither of which would be understood by, say, Netscape 3

but outside of elements, it makes even more difference in css and js as to how old we're trying to support

I wonder if anyone's used netscape 3 in the last decade...

I know at least one university that's still standardized on NS 3 gold

sucks to be them

sure, but thus the question

we *can* try to handle IE 5, IE 4, NS 3, NS 4, mobiles, etc - but each has a cost in requiring more hacks to still make them work, time to get the hacks to work and not break in modern browers, and generally make the code that much more fragile

that's why I just use xhtml type stuff and if it breaks in ancient browsers, then people should stop living in the computer version of the stone age

oh well

I know when I got online in 1999, I had IE 5 and NS 4.5 or something

lol, yes, but the decision at to which browsers to even attempt to support does matter, as does which doctype you're aiming for. For css and js, the decision to even support IE 5 essentially doubles the amount of work to get things to work.

I remember IE 5.5 coming out a few months later and loads of people started using coloured scroll bars

Opera still supports that. D:

"Fuck Me I'm Famous" is such a pro name for a remix.

what is this channel about?

Musicbrainz.

ok

FauxFaux: you still awake?

yllona: Yes!

okay some janet jackson clips to keep you inspired as you continue to blow off coursework: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH8zNrbouLM

The coursework is due in two hours, so that'd be a bit harsh. :)

so you finished up? excellent

Turns out I'm exceptionally good at writing crap. \o/

it's an essential skill. will serve you well in the corporate environment :)