I especially like the concept of a focus on keeping the open bugs count low.
2009-04-07 09716, 2009
brianfreud
h - even if it's only a release with bug fixes, if new feature X isn't yet ready to release.
2009-04-07 09718, 2009
pronik
that's essentially the way all web apps work
2009-04-07 09724, 2009
pronik
when it's ready, deploy it
2009-04-07 09738, 2009
pronik
if it's buggy, fix it and re-deploy
2009-04-07 09755, 2009
brianfreud
well, I think we've begun to get stuck in the process, since we keep slipping the goal date and the scope of what we are trying to do
2009-04-07 09723, 2009
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2009-04-07 09736, 2009
brianfreud
I had mentally set myself a goal of 3/15 for the ES and all JS to be ported and ready to release, and I'm doing my best to try and stick to that, even though we now seem to have a later goal date.
2009-04-07 09739, 2009
pronik
currently we can't release fast since NGS is pretty much a re-write
2009-04-07 09703, 2009
pronik
3/15?
2009-04-07 09707, 2009
pronik
15th of march?
2009-04-07 09709, 2009
brianfreud
sorry, 4/15
2009-04-07 09713, 2009
pronik
ah ok
2009-04-07 09707, 2009
brianfreud
Offhand, the only unported bits of js are the AR hider/shower (based on selected AR), artist/etc lookup, the voting page scripts, ajax tag submission, the sortname guesser handler, and rerewriting the switch code for artist/label "locking".
2009-04-07 09755, 2009
brianfreud
As soon as acid2 gets the ES branch up and running later today, *anything* other than those, or *any* bug in the new code that's already going to be running, I want to know about, even if it means I get a ton of tickets :P
2009-04-07 09704, 2009
pronik
And then you can start fiddling with inline edits ;)
2009-04-07 09712, 2009
brianfreud
those are going to be tricky.
2009-04-07 09734, 2009
brianfreud
Though I have two "new stuff" projects to work on, after all the rest is ported, before I ever look at inline editing.
2009-04-07 09758, 2009
brianfreud
The WYSIWYG editor for annotations/bios/edit notes, and the "User assistant help system"
2009-04-07 09714, 2009
pronik
btw. I've seen you message about presets, I'll write to that topic later today or even tomoroow
2009-04-07 09721, 2009
brianfreud
ok :)
2009-04-07 09735, 2009
warp
brianfreud: yeah, that's a bit sad. i was looking forward to playing with your work on beta.mb
2009-04-07 09740, 2009
brianfreud
but I really do mean it, if anyone has any ideas for "new stuff", please ticket it.
2009-04-07 09748, 2009
pronik
wysiwyg -- consider using wmd please
2009-04-07 09754, 2009
brianfreud
as far as I know, there are no inline editor tickets yet
2009-04-07 09723, 2009
brianfreud
pronik: I've not settled on an editor yet, though I like the dojo one. I wrote the html <--> text::wikiformat parser a year ago though :P
2009-04-07 09741, 2009
pronik
and try to summarize what you mean by user assistant help system in the wiki -- I assume it's the "show me the relevant styleguide parts" thingy, which I look forward to :)
2009-04-07 09756, 2009
brianfreud
the other thing I'd like to add someday is "suggested edits", based on the ideas I prototyped in Geordie
2009-04-07 09703, 2009
pronik
brianfreud: I personally hate wysiwyg but I like live previews
2009-04-07 09733, 2009
brianfreud
pronik: re help system, no, more something ruoak and I've talked about - an interactive non-wiki "how to" system
2009-04-07 09739, 2009
pronik
I'm subscribed to all wiki edits so I'll see your proposals and will comment
2009-04-07 09743, 2009
brianfreud
though I've only thought about it, no protos yet
2009-04-07 09710, 2009
brianfreud
my thoughts on wysiwyg, though, are that it be avail in a 1) no wysiwyg (raw textwiki format) version, 2) "live preview" (raw textwiki, but with live preview), and 3) real wysiwyg (no textwiki displayed, just a full wysiwyg editor)
2009-04-07 09731, 2009
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brianfreud
one negative that occurred to me, even if noone else, about the switch to mediawiki, is that now editors who previously would have had moinmoin experience from the wiki, to easily adapt to the very similar textwiki markup, they now won't get that experience, so textwiki will be much less familiar (the markup is much less identical between mediawiki and textwiki, vs moinmoin and textwiki)
2009-04-07 09756, 2009
voiceinsideyou
+1 to what BrianFreud said even though I didn't see the rest of the convo :D
2009-04-07 09723, 2009
Muz
Bleh, you can't just sit there and forever condemn new things because of the learning curve involved.
Ultimately, MediaWiki allows for much better wiki management in the long run heh.
2009-04-07 09756, 2009
Muz
Not ot mention that a lot of other people will be more familiar with mediawiki markup thanks to Wikipedo.
2009-04-07 09759, 2009
pronik
that's part of my critism of wiki
2009-04-07 09701, 2009
brianfreud
Muz: I don't - but I think the need is now greater for a wysiwyg editor for annotations than when I first came up with the idea 1.5 years ago
2009-04-07 09717, 2009
pronik
a wiki which allows diffeerent formats would be probably better
2009-04-07 09744, 2009
Muz
brianfreud: a general toolbar for inserting text formatting like, say, Trac (shuddder) would be nice for edit notes and other things.
2009-04-07 09749, 2009
Muz
I've been saying that for a long time ;)
2009-04-07 09745, 2009
brianfreud
I actually had patched tt, based on the tt annotation code, to allow textwiki markup in bios and notes, but acid2 said he didn't like his existing code for annotations, and wanted to rewrite it for all three, so that patch never made it in to the tt trunk
2009-04-07 09710, 2009
brianfreud
but yes, that's the general idea, sortof
2009-04-07 09737, 2009
brianfreud
I'm going to try to be very open to suggestions on the UI, when I get to coding that.
2009-04-07 09744, 2009
brianfreud
My timetable, unless something comes up to change it, is something like all old js ported by 4/15, all bugs (esp in GC) ironed out by 4/30, wysiwyg by tt live, and the help system by end of year. Suggested edits, if I can get support for it, maybe by tt live.
2009-04-07 09753, 2009
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rexroom
so. here's a question:
2009-04-07 09736, 2009
rexroom
if you come across to a compilation that has the same content as the copy you have, with the same discid, but is titled differently AND looks official, should I just put the release details in the same album entry or should I just create a new one?
2009-04-07 09748, 2009
catgroove
[11:10] <Muz> brianfreud: a general toolbar for inserting text formatting like, say, Trac (shuddder) would be nice for edit notes and other things. <-- ding to that
2009-04-07 09709, 2009
catgroove
and i actually made a ticket on that
2009-04-07 09721, 2009
catgroove
ad wtf is text wiki?
2009-04-07 09711, 2009
rexroom
well, I went and linked the DiscID to an already existing entry. so nvrmind
2009-04-07 09718, 2009
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2009-04-07 09713, 2009
brianfreud
CatCat: textwiki is the perl module which the server uses to do annotations. That markup's that one that looked almost like, but not quite the exact same, as moinmoin markup?
2009-04-07 09721, 2009
catgroove
ok
2009-04-07 09753, 2009
catgroove
well the rules for text markup is written underneeth each anno. box
2009-04-07 09728, 2009
catgroove
but yes, a wysiwyg (wtf?) isn't tneeded, quite not. a simple format link like the one on track or on mediawiki is all it requires
2009-04-07 09745, 2009
catgroove
I already made a ticket
2009-04-07 09754, 2009
catgroove
long time ago
2009-04-07 09705, 2009
catgroove
also edit notes would have this format line imho
2009-04-07 09729, 2009
catgroove
a wysiwyg editor is over.engineering something imple
2009-04-07 09732, 2009
catgroove
simple*
2009-04-07 09721, 2009
Muz
Er. No.
2009-04-07 09729, 2009
catgroove
erh. yes
2009-04-07 09747, 2009
Muz
The end user need never see the internals of the WYSIWYG editor.
2009-04-07 09705, 2009
catgroove
seriously annotiations donæt *need* any "editor" at all
2009-04-07 09716, 2009
Muz
It's also a damn sight more friendly than having to follow a secondary link, read and self format their own text in accordance to yet another custom format is far from friendly.
2009-04-07 09728, 2009
catgroove
there is no secondary link
2009-04-07 09738, 2009
Muz
" a simple format link like the one on track or on mediawiki is all it requires"
2009-04-07 09738, 2009
catgroove
and the format line would just do it for them
2009-04-07 09750, 2009
catgroove
sorry. line not link
2009-04-07 09703, 2009
catgroove
"editbar"
2009-04-07 09731, 2009
catgroove
select your text and click button, presto bold or italics
2009-04-07 09731, 2009
Muz
Even then, not following a link, but having to read additional documentation and having to self format text is far from friendly for the majority of new people, or for the majority of people in general.
2009-04-07 09742, 2009
catgroove
disagree
2009-04-07 09759, 2009
MBChatLogger
I hate the evil empire
2009-04-07 09759, 2009
catgroove
this way is themost common way, even in programs like microsoft word this is the norm
2009-04-07 09705, 2009
catgroove
yea yea whatever
2009-04-07 09716, 2009
Muz
You're wording things weirdly, I've honestly no idea what you're trying to get at.
2009-04-07 09723, 2009
catgroove
probably
2009-04-07 09739, 2009
Muz
Hmm, you use Livejournal right?
2009-04-07 09752, 2009
Muz
You mean like the bar above writing new entries?
2009-04-07 09712, 2009
Muz
Because this is what I imagine the WYSIWYG editor would have been all along.
2009-04-07 09725, 2009
catgroove
dude, like the forums. you select some text you want bold. then click some button above the textbox that says "bold" and the formatting is einserted
2009-04-07 09711, 2009
catgroove
to me wysiwyg means what you see is what you get overly engineered javascript tothe doo to have formatting show up i nthe text box and images as images not links, etc
2009-04-07 09743, 2009
Muz
Ah. If that's what you meant all aalong, then I agree. However, what's also missing is a "Preview" button.
2009-04-07 09756, 2009
catgroove
indeed, that i agree with
2009-04-07 09758, 2009
Muz
If you're going to allow for additional formatting, people should be able to review things before committing them.
2009-04-07 09759, 2009
catgroove
priview
2009-04-07 09701, 2009
MBChatLogger
I hate the evil empire
2009-04-07 09701, 2009
brianfreud
"this way is themost common way, even in programs like microsoft word this is the norm" <- no, unless I'm misunderstanding you, since what you're describing sounds a lot more like WordPerfect 5.0 for DOS, in code markup mode, and not a lot like Word
