if the official name of the band/artist/group is 'The' something the 'the' will always be capitalized. if it is always lowercase and sometimes isnt included at all the band/group/artist name does not include 'the'
You sent it as a statement... the point of which isn't clear. Are you proposing a new guideline?
Request for Change
alastairp
right :)
lancerocke
hmmm
brianfreud
(or Comments) ;)
lancerocke
i guess so
requesting a new guideline
brianfreud
Well, whether or not "The" (or A, etc) is used, I think, will be made easier to allow for both when NGS goes live, and we have Artist Credits.
lancerocke
guess i have to read up on what NGS is
i mean i just want the proper name to be represented for reference
brianfreud
But as for the "most correct" artist name (not variations on it), I think that's best decided on a case by case basis, not some overriding rule that arbitrarily says we shouldn't use "the", even if the bands' name should include it.
lancerocke
if i wanna know if the bands name includes 'the' i wanna be able to find out on musicbrainz
but i cant
like EVER
brianfreud
your definition of "official documentation" also isn't all that helpful; you'll have tens of thousands of bands from the pre-internet era where there isn't any documentation, apart from liners, from which to determine if The should be used.
lancerocke
the the liners would have to be it
newspaper articles
anything
brianfreud
artist/band/group's album covers:"
I just think this guideline sets itself up to make things just more confusing, without actually definitely solving the problem.
lancerocke
yeah the front cover sometimes includes the when the liner doesnt
the front cover for whether or not 'the' should be included should never be used
yes, but that's why I suggest it should be left to the editors on a case by case basis, rather than trying to draw a line saying "only these types of documentation count, but these others, like front covers, don't count"
lancerocke
it was so hard for me to get 'jackson 5' changed to the proper name
brianfreud: that reminds me of what i call 'the prince rule'
It was "decided" by expiration, with only one comment and 3 abstains...
lancerocke
honestly its just fact
i dunno what to say about that example
its jackson 5
lol im sorry i cant discuss that more
one example that can be debated is 'smashing pumpkins' that one isnt solid
i mean thats y i proposed the rule i guess
i just want musicbrainz to be better as i really like the site
im tired of seeing spanish and french tracklistings being butchered
4 letter preopsitions being uppercase
and 'the' being included where it shouldnt
brianfreud
Well, I just think "Only when the 'the' is always included and capitalized should we include 'the' in the artist name." is overly restrictive, esp given that you're indicating to specifically ignore some documentation.
lancerocke
i wanna be able to go to musicbrainz to find out whats really what when im tagging an album
brianfreud
As for 4 letter prepositions, I've played with GC in 4-letter preposition mode, 5-letter, etc - and the resulting camelcase mess seriously sucks.
lancerocke
GC?
brianfreud
you're proposing changing all 4-letter ones, but only specifying "from" and "with" - the full 4-letter list makes a serious mess of uppercase/lowercase: amid, anti, atop, down, from, into, like, near, next, onto, over, past, plus, sans, save, than, till, unto, upon, with
guess case
lancerocke
i sorry i dont know the lingo
i'm*
yeah guess case never works
u know what?
im not going to sugarcoat this...
i want to say im a fan of MB ;) but for caps RYM is the place to go
its just the truth
they are right 90% of the time
brianfreud
there is no "right" capitalization.
lancerocke
not sure what u mean by that but they go by artist intent first then refer to the proper rules
such as rules for spanish caps
they hardly ever let me down for caps
MB is great and i use it as an authority sometimes
just RYM is better for caps
brianfreud
We have capitalization standards for various languages. They are not always correctly done, however, by editors.
lancerocke
true
brianfreud
But for English, there is no such thing as "correct" camelcase capitalization.
lancerocke
french is ok 50% of the time i find on MB
brianfreud
sorry, I mean title case, not camelcase.
lancerocke
spanish is something like wrong 80% of the time
brianfreud
More French editors cleaning things up than Spanish editors doing it, tbh :)
nikki
what's your preferred capitalisation for spanish?
lancerocke
only first word caps
unless its the name of place or person
nikki
we have a guideline that says to do that
lancerocke
nikki: its hardly ever used
lol
nikki
well, we have a *page* that says that, I'm not sure if we made it official
I know :/
lancerocke
whats with 'from' and 'with' anyways
y wont we lowercase them
they should be
nikki
we don't really have a lot of spanish editors, so most of the people editing spanish stuff are people used to english style :/
lancerocke
also needs to be a rule for '...of' or '...a'
brianfreud
because the English capitalization standard says they should be capitalized. (Or rather, doesn't include them on the list of words that shpould be lowercased).
lancerocke
...the
unless its artist intent like ...And you will know us by the trail of the dead
brianfreud
* (b) Coordinate conjunctions: and, but, or, nor ?
yes, these are the capitalization standards for tracks too
nikki
I have an email in my inbox about making the spanish one official or something like that, but I've still not got round to doing anything about it
brianfreud
partially, cause we have a lot fewer Spanish autoeditors than French or some other languages, for whatever reason... Now if you felt like adopting that proposal lancerocke, and getting Capitalization_Standard_Spanish made official, that would be helpful :)
lancerocke
well i think ive vented enough and appreciate u guy hearing me out and commenting. im gonna take a shower ow so be back soon
brianfreud
nikki: iirc, it's spanish, turkish, yiddish, and vietnamese that are still proposals, not official, but don't quote me :)
