I guess I was wondering if you sought out the Echo Nest folks because they were interested in open-sourcing their code base, or if you'd be equally happy with another service as long as the licensing was workable
2011-06-28 17944, 2011
ruaok
a little of both.
2011-06-28 17906, 2011
derwin
I'm happy with the idea that any entity I contribute fingerprints to will not suddenly take their ball and go home..
2011-06-28 17907, 2011
ruaok
the echonest realized that by open sourceing their stuff they would get much more reach and should be able to build a commodity fingerprint system.
2011-06-28 17909, 2011
derwin
(as a random user of mb)
2011-06-28 17921, 2011
n8willis
so who got in touch with who first?
2011-06-28 17929, 2011
ruaok
and I've been looking for open solutions for fingerprinting for many years now.
2011-06-28 17947, 2011
ruaok
n8willis: hard to say. we have an ongoing relationship with the echonest.
2011-06-28 17900, 2011
ruaok
this wasn't our first dealings. see project rosetta stone.
2011-06-28 17916, 2011
ruaok
and Paul Lamere of EN used to work for Sun, and Sun donated hardware to us before.
2011-06-28 17918, 2011
n8willis
so it's more of a "mutual good fit" scenario?
2011-06-28 17928, 2011
ruaok
so this is a continuation of previous relationships.
2011-06-28 17934, 2011
n8willis
k
2011-06-28 17934, 2011
ruaok
yes, a good way to say that.
2011-06-28 17945, 2011
ruaok
plus EN donated $2k to our hardware fundraiser.
2011-06-28 17957, 2011
derwin
free as in beer
2011-06-28 17924, 2011
n8willis
derwin?
2011-06-28 17925, 2011
ruaok
> And if there is, does Echoprint offer any patent protection for users of its open source software?
2011-06-28 17942, 2011
ruaok
when I mentioned patents, they said they were looking into that.
2011-06-28 17949, 2011
n8willis
ok
2011-06-28 17949, 2011
ruaok
its best to ask them about patents. :)
2011-06-28 17903, 2011
n8willis
yeah ... I promise I'm trying ...
2011-06-28 17907, 2011
derwin
n8willis: I was being slightly jokey about the oft-repeated "free as in speech" vs "free as in beer" dichotomy
2011-06-28 17923, 2011
derwin
n8willis: I was alluding to the idea that $2k was "free as in beer" :)
2011-06-28 17926, 2011
suriv joined the channel
2011-06-28 17930, 2011
n8willis
ah
2011-06-28 17942, 2011
n8willis
"free as in fundraiser"....
2011-06-28 17946, 2011
derwin
exactly :)
2011-06-28 17902, 2011
derwin
I'm just the peanut gallery, sorry :)
2011-06-28 17926, 2011
n8willis
so what's going on with acoustid?
2011-06-28 17938, 2011
ruaok
luks: you wanna answer that?
2011-06-28 17942, 2011
ruaok
luks is the author of that.
2011-06-28 17952, 2011
n8willis
oh, cool
2011-06-28 17922, 2011
ruaok
but, MB's view is to try and be fingerprint tech agnostic -- as far as that is possible.
2011-06-28 17925, 2011
derwin
(when I asked last night, he suggested that they are complimentary and slightly different in design and implementation)
(I probably still have it in scrollback if he's idle, as I shouldn't speak for him)
2011-06-28 17947, 2011
ruaok
we can now say that we will only have open solutions supported in MB
2011-06-28 17954, 2011
n8willis
ok
2011-06-28 17907, 2011
ruaok
and thus, let the best tech win.
2011-06-28 17931, 2011
ruaok
and the best tech will be the tech that embraces its users and works to improve the service.
2011-06-28 17949, 2011
n8willis
last question (promise!) -- the blog says you're testing echoprint on its own server. how's that been going, and have you learned anything yet? like, performance-wise?
2011-06-28 17951, 2011
luks
"what's going on with acoustid" is a hard question to answer :)
2011-06-28 17928, 2011
ruaok
n8willis: we're not actually testing their server. we have support for echoprints in our test server echoprint.musicbrainz.org
2011-06-28 17944, 2011
n8willis
right; I meant your own, not their own....
2011-06-28 17956, 2011
n8willis
(as in, not the main MB server)
2011-06-28 17910, 2011
ruaok
well, thats just copy&pasta from the PUID code, so there isn't much to learn there.
2011-06-28 17944, 2011
ruaok
I feel that the echoprint stuff is still very raw and that quite a bit of tuning needs to happen before its really ready for use.
2011-06-28 17910, 2011
ruaok
My rule of thumb is that it will be at least a year from the time the authors say their service is done to when its actually done.
2011-06-28 17915, 2011
ruaok
could be 2 years.
2011-06-28 17940, 2011
ruaok
I think luks is going to be different there. he'll spend 2 years hacking on it and never calling it done. :)
2011-06-28 17958, 2011
luks
I'll call it done when it's done, I always do that :)
2011-06-28 17907, 2011
ruaok
but it will likely work better and be more stable than anyone else's fingerprints.
2011-06-28 17931, 2011
ruaok
luks: yep, your standards of done are different for most everyone. :)
2011-06-28 17941, 2011
n8willis
so it's a long ways before we'll see either one fully integrated, then
2011-06-28 17958, 2011
ruaok
its not about integration, as much as it is about critical mass.
2011-06-28 17918, 2011
n8willis
not sure I follow you there
2011-06-28 17922, 2011
ruaok
you wont get critical mass until you convince app authors to include the tech into their apps.
2011-06-28 17923, 2011
derwin
"adoption"
2011-06-28 17959, 2011
ruaok
and then you need to build a pile of clean data for everyone to clearly see the value.
2011-06-28 17910, 2011
ruaok
once you have both of those, you'll see a good adoption.
2011-06-28 17920, 2011
Munger joined the channel
2011-06-28 17921, 2011
Munger joined the channel
2011-06-28 17936, 2011
n8willis
right; but so I understand what MB is doing -- you don't have to add new Track parameters to support either fingerprinting service?
2011-06-28 17955, 2011
n8willis
that's where rosetta stone comes in?
2011-06-28 17907, 2011
danmichel joined the channel
2011-06-28 17909, 2011
ruaok
we have to add new tables for the echoprint stuff, but not for acoustid.
2011-06-28 17921, 2011
ruaok
acoustid manages the mapping to MB on its own turf.
2011-06-28 17928, 2011
luks
acoustid integrated with musicbrainz, not the other way around
2011-06-28 17929, 2011
ruaok
whereas MB manages it for echoprints.
2011-06-28 17946, 2011
luks
I'd still like to know what those "echoprints" are though :)
2011-06-28 17946, 2011
Yllona joined the channel
2011-06-28 17906, 2011
luks
you should answer that mb-devel email, I don't think anybody from the echo nest will
2011-06-28 17952, 2011
Yllona
hello peoples
2011-06-28 17914, 2011
ruaok
luks: I've tried to understand it, but I don't. I'll keep pestering alastairp to answer it.
2011-06-28 17917, 2011
ruaok
hi Yllona
2011-06-28 17949, 2011
luks
ruaok: well, it will be your decision at the end
2011-06-28 17955, 2011
derwin
(what they "are" ?)
2011-06-28 17901, 2011
Yllona
ruaok! what's up luv?
2011-06-28 17907, 2011
ruaok
luks: agreed, but I need to understand first. :)
2011-06-28 17919, 2011
luks
but if MB is going to track the echo nest song IDs, it has nothing to do with echoprints, so it woud be a mistake to call it like that
2011-06-28 17921, 2011
ruaok
Yllona: same shit, different turn around the globe. you?
2011-06-28 17916, 2011
Yllona
ruaok: same old, new fabulous digs. did you get my new postal addy?
2011-06-28 17924, 2011
ruaok
yup
2011-06-28 17936, 2011
Yllona
coolness
2011-06-28 17913, 2011
Yllona
I'm finally settled in, anything i can help with?
2011-06-28 17927, 2011
ruaok
can you answer my pile of emails?
2011-06-28 17934, 2011
ruaok
I never seem to get on top of it. :(
2011-06-28 17906, 2011
Yllona
I'm willing:) You need an admin asst?
2011-06-28 17943, 2011
ruaok
heh. that would be nice. but I'd rather have more engineers. :)
2011-06-28 17930, 2011
Yllona
I hear you. I have time for drudgery tasks. Just send them my way...
2011-06-28 17955, 2011
kepstin-laptop really should stop doing random one-off hacks, and start actually contributing to project development :)
