basically, what happened there is that some annoyed last.fm users didn't want their swedish band to scrobble to the same place as the british band, so they manually edited their music files to add '(Swedish)' to the artist name.
roosoft: it's a real band, it's not their real name. It's a hack to workaround the issue that last.fm doesn't support multiple artists with the same name.
2012-04-12 10354, 2012
roosoft
yeap
2012-04-12 10332, 2012
Mineo
their +noredirect page is also quite weird - apparently I have 3 friends listening to them, with 0 or more plays depending on which page I look at :)
2012-04-12 10311, 2012
kepstin-laptop noticed that Mineo showed up as a friend who has listened to them
2012-04-12 10335, 2012
kepstin-laptop
I think it might be getting the scrobbles confused with the redirect or something.
2012-04-12 10304, 2012
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2012-04-12 10347, 2012
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2012-04-12 10313, 2012
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2012-04-12 10350, 2012
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2012-04-12 10359, 2012
Leftmost joined the channel
2012-04-12 10344, 2012
mat_
I have a few mp3's where Picard gives me a nice red interdiction sign and gives the error "Error: 'ascii' code can't encode character u'\xe8' in position 7: ordinal not in range(128)"
2012-04-12 10325, 2012
mat_
and it fails to read them, and I can't do anything with them
2012-04-12 10333, 2012
mat_
(iTunes can read them all right though)
2012-04-12 10315, 2012
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2012-04-12 10337, 2012
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2012-04-12 10344, 2012
Mineo
mat_: when you start picard from a console, do you get a warning about your locale being wrong/suboptimal?
2012-04-12 10354, 2012
mat_
Mineo, hum, trying to launch the binary directly (using macosx)
2012-04-12 10327, 2012
mat_
I don't have that warning, I do have trackback though
Mineo, I'm not sure it's an osx problem, but I can make one mp3 available to someone who's interested :-)
2012-04-12 10354, 2012
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2012-04-12 10337, 2012
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2012-04-12 10342, 2012
kepstin-laptop
huh, google decided to give me the new google+ interface today. weird.
2012-04-12 10331, 2012
reoafk
So now you can place your cat in front of the monitor and still see all the content! :p
2012-04-12 10301, 2012
ruaok joined the channel
2012-04-12 10350, 2012
kepstin-laptop
using google apps is kind of weird, because they generally have slower rollouts of new features on set dates, and announce them in advance.
2012-04-12 10327, 2012
kepstin-laptop
so they changed the top bar design on google sites a little while back - and now I have it in google+, but am getting it in other google properties next week.
2012-04-12 10303, 2012
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2012-04-12 10308, 2012
warp
we should do that on musicbrainz.
2012-04-12 10302, 2012
warp doesn't regularly visit google, so doesn't notice these changes.
2012-04-12 10318, 2012
reoafk
:p
2012-04-12 10324, 2012
reoafk
It seems that's in the plans!
2012-04-12 10326, 2012
reoafk hides
2012-04-12 10321, 2012
warp
reoafk: change things on musicbrainz.org only for some people before rolling it out to everyone.
I mean, "only for some people, before everyone" is a beta
2012-04-12 10316, 2012
reoafk
So that's what it should be called
2012-04-12 10318, 2012
warp
it should all be part of the same code.
2012-04-12 10327, 2012
reoafk
Why?
2012-04-12 10332, 2012
ianmcorvidae
using what rearchitected configuration system? :P
2012-04-12 10336, 2012
reoafk
(not saying it shouldn't, just trying to understand it :p)
2012-04-12 10349, 2012
ianmcorvidae
or, put more simply: we have more important stuff to work on :P
2012-04-12 10301, 2012
warp
ianmcorvidae: I certainly agree with that.
2012-04-12 10328, 2012
warp
reoafk: the feature being present (but disabled) in code used by lots of users gives me more confidence that the feature didn't break something unrelated.
2012-04-12 10342, 2012
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2012-04-12 10355, 2012
warp
reoafk: I would have preferred all the cover art code to already be part of musicbrainz.org, but just disabled for most users.
2012-04-12 10315, 2012
reoafk
warp: how would that work?
2012-04-12 10328, 2012
reoafk
Would non-beta users be able to vote on the related edits?
2012-04-12 10341, 2012
warp
reoafk: they wouldn't see them.
2012-04-12 10343, 2012
dubwai
it's bug or feature of picard when use "Standartized artist names" it add "Artist feat. Artists", but if in MB was "Artist / Artist" then in tags would be "Artist; Artist"
2012-04-12 10323, 2012
dubwai
yes of course it's cool, but woulb nice to have option to get standart names with original separation symbols
2012-04-12 10333, 2012
warp
reoafk: anyawy, that requires very modular and versioned code, it would be hard to implement on current mb_server.
2012-04-12 10348, 2012
reoafk
So, we definitely have better things to work on, yeah
2012-04-12 10349, 2012
reoafk
:)
2012-04-12 10305, 2012
reoafk
(although I can see the benefits, they seem marginal)
2012-04-12 10323, 2012
reoafk
(or at least relatively so)
2012-04-12 10344, 2012
warp
it just makes releasing something much less of a headache, because the software is already there on production.
2012-04-12 10355, 2012
warp
a release is just flipping a switch.
2012-04-12 10323, 2012
warp
and the actual work of removing old versions of code and publishing new versions of code is decoupled from when users see those changes.
2012-04-12 10328, 2012
ianmcorvidae
you still have to update the code at some point, I don't think you're totally right on that
2012-04-12 10303, 2012
warp
ianmcorvidae: yes, but you update it completely disabled. no-one sees it.
2012-04-12 10321, 2012
ianmcorvidae
warp: sure, but if it breaks something unrelated, that switch still breaks things :)
2012-04-12 10322, 2012
warp
ianmcorvidae: then you enable it for yourself, do a few tests, then enable it for the group of beta users.
2012-04-12 10358, 2012
ianmcorvidae
anyway, at the moment our policy is usually "merge everything into master just before release" (or just during, last release :P)
ianmcorvidae: yeah, so you need to have good test coverage, and easy ways to deploy and rollback releases.
2012-04-12 10317, 2012
ianmcorvidae
until that changes, this makes no difference: we need to be actually putting things on beta before beta-oriented improvements to the way our code works are valuable :P
2012-04-12 10324, 2012
reoafk
demosdemon: amazing cover
2012-04-12 10352, 2012
demosdemon
yeah!
2012-04-12 10302, 2012
demosdemon
It needs to get added to MB… stack for later
2012-04-12 10307, 2012
reoafk
:)
2012-04-12 10327, 2012
warp
ianmcorvidae: were you the one who messed with Etags or something on the webservice?
2012-04-12 10339, 2012
ianmcorvidae
warp: yes, I enabled those
2012-04-12 10350, 2012
ianmcorvidae
in the silliest possible way, but :P
2012-04-12 10301, 2012
warp nods.
2012-04-12 10341, 2012
ianmcorvidae
why do you ask?
2012-04-12 10351, 2012
warp
ianmcorvidae: I'm pondering the editable webservice, and we probably need something similar there.
2012-04-12 10314, 2012
ianmcorvidae
I mean, etags are for caching responses -- you definitely don't want to cache responses for things that change data :P
2012-04-12 10304, 2012
warp
let's say the editable webservice allows you to change things with a PUT request to /ws/2/entity/{mbid}
2012-04-12 10332, 2012
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2012-04-12 10350, 2012
warp
PUT should be idempotent, so the request body should have the full entity, with any changes to be made.
2012-04-12 10323, 2012
warp
but if someone else changed the entity in the meantime, the request should be rejected so the client can re-request the document, make the changes, and submit again.
2012-04-12 10343, 2012
ianmcorvidae
oh, hm
2012-04-12 10316, 2012
ianmcorvidae
that's related, I guess -- some sort of wrapper around the full entity in the request that includes a hash of the base data?
2012-04-12 10324, 2012
warp
now, the situation here is a bit different because the GET request associated with the PUT should have in some fashion a standardized set of inc= arguments.
2012-04-12 10303, 2012
ianmcorvidae
well, it makes the combinatorics a lot less obnoxious at least :P
2012-04-12 10304, 2012
warp
so perhaps it's ok to hash that and have the client submit the hash of the original document along with the PUT request. but still, meh.
2012-04-12 10322, 2012
ianmcorvidae
easier to do it with dates
2012-04-12 10327, 2012
ianmcorvidae
but then we have to be able to track dates :P
2012-04-12 10339, 2012
warp
(obviously ocharles' fancy new edit system will make all this much easier :)
2012-04-12 10350, 2012
ianmcorvidae
heh, I wouldn't necessarily count on that :P
2012-04-12 10306, 2012
ianmcorvidae
(or count on that appearing anytime soon)
2012-04-12 10311, 2012
warp nods.
2012-04-12 10344, 2012
warp
ianmcorvidae: I was also considering only submitting changes in the edit request (which would probably be POST then), but it's hard to described deletes that way
2012-04-12 10339, 2012
ianmcorvidae
yeah
2012-04-12 10353, 2012
warp
so then the problem basically becomes the problem of looking for a good XML diff spec, afaik none of those existed last time I was looking for one.
2012-04-12 10320, 2012
ianmcorvidae
you still need some way to specify the base of the diff, I guess, so :)
2012-04-12 10336, 2012
warp
ah, yeah.
2012-04-12 10341, 2012
warp
so blegh.
2012-04-12 10330, 2012
demosdemon
mmkday… I don't know german
2012-04-12 10336, 2012
demosdemon
there's no way I can add that cd
2012-04-12 10343, 2012
reoafk
Mineo, you around?
2012-04-12 10353, 2012
reoafk
If you are ^
2012-04-12 10357, 2012
ianmcorvidae
you're essentially trying to implement MVCC, seems like, but perhaps with hashes rather than transaction IDs
2012-04-12 10306, 2012
ianmcorvidae
(or, timestamps, but)
2012-04-12 10315, 2012
ianmcorvidae
however, it may be that /ws/2 is a poor choice of base for this sort of thing, due to the complexity of ?inc
2012-04-12 10329, 2012
ianmcorvidae
not sure if we can do better though :/
2012-04-12 10345, 2012
warp
ianmcorvidae: I'm not saying we should support ?inc= in the editable webservice.
2012-04-12 10310, 2012
ianmcorvidae
no, but ?inc= in the current webservice complicates choosing this sort of a base-object for the editable WS
2012-04-12 10316, 2012
demosdemon
Artist: Lydia Und Ihre Munchner Buam
2012-04-12 10319, 2012
demosdemon
is that two?
2012-04-12 10348, 2012
warp
ianmcorvidae: right, but we can allow that for requests, but not allow the output of anything which has used ?inc= as a document suitable for editing.
2012-04-12 10354, 2012
kepstin-laptop would think an inc-less redesign of the web service would be both a better base for an editable webservice, and nicer to use just as a regular webservice.
2012-04-12 10310, 2012
reoafk
demosdemon: "Buam" seems to be some kind of "band" or "ensemble" word
2012-04-12 10312, 2012
ianmcorvidae
warp: heh, if you can't do anything with ?inc there's not much you're going to be able to edit :P
2012-04-12 10321, 2012
demosdemon
ah
2012-04-12 10325, 2012
ianmcorvidae
and I agree with kepstin
2012-04-12 10332, 2012
Mineo
demosdemon: it's like "foo and his orchestra"
2012-04-12 10338, 2012
ianmcorvidae
I've been meaning to poke around at trying to design such a thing
2012-04-12 10345, 2012
kepstin-laptop
might as well throw on json output as well, make it easier to use from javascript.
2012-04-12 10348, 2012
ianmcorvidae
except I never have enough time for anything :P
2012-04-12 10302, 2012
warp
ianmcorvidae: e.g. let's say we define /ws/2/{entity}/{mbid}/?for_edit=true to be the same as whatever inc arguments are listed on the details tab for such an entity on musicbrainz.org.
2012-04-12 10304, 2012
djce joined the channel
2012-04-12 10307, 2012
Mineo
just in a bavarian dialect that's nearly not even german anymore :P
2012-04-12 10353, 2012
warp
ianmcorvidae: only those requests will come with a hash which the client should submit in the request headers along with its changes to the document.
2012-04-12 10356, 2012
ianmcorvidae
warp: ah, so you're not saying that "no ?inc" is the base, you're saying that there's some predetermined set of inc arguments that provides a base?
2012-04-12 10304, 2012
warp
ianmcorvidae: yes
2012-04-12 10315, 2012
demosdemon
Of course, of all the things to find in this library not in mb, it had to be in Bavarian
2012-04-12 10321, 2012
ianmcorvidae
I still think I like kepstin's idea more, but that does seem reasonable
2012-04-12 10331, 2012
Mineo
demosdemon: if you give me a minute I can give you a tracklist with correct capitalization :)
2012-04-12 10335, 2012
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2012-04-12 10342, 2012
ianmcorvidae
adding another WS is fairly drastic, too :P
2012-04-12 10345, 2012
warp
kepstin-laptop: my prototype code on this topic does json.
2012-04-12 10325, 2012
demosdemon
I have the jewel case too
2012-04-12 10356, 2012
warp
ianmcorvidae: I think it makes sense to experiment in the /ws/2/ namespace as long as possible, so that when we do need to go to /ws/3/ we've learned as much as we can from all the mistakes we've already made :)
2012-04-12 10320, 2012
ianmcorvidae
warp: yeah, indeed; I was thinking of experimenting in the .mbsandbox.org namespace ;)
