#musicbrainz

Krystof: do tell.

and that is legitimate because it gives us a distinct way of looking at music from the one which considers the immediate performance as the primary object (you instead have the concept of the "work of art" distinct from the performance)

but it suggests that the classicalness is in the beholder rather than inherent in the music or the performance or the work

basically, German late 19th century musicology spun a narrative of "Art Music" going from Telemann/Bach/Haydn/Mozart/Beethoven/Schubert/Schumann

not entirely coincidentally, the stellar points in this firmament of greats happen to be Germanic

mixed english french track list

caps according to the track language or unify it (english)

?

noobie: I was told to do caps per track. and not try to pick something consistent for the entire tracklist.

[17:20] CallerNo6so, MBS-4108 (show wiki abstract inline). What's the plan for bands that don't warrant a wikipedia page?

ty warp :)

have a full fledget artist wiki o our wiki i na subdomain

I've bee nsaying this for a while :3

(I do not agree with that, but I'll follow the guideline because everyone else insisted :)

:)

Then they got Berg and Schönberg and were like "this doesn't fit, can't we say these are French?"

well, the ideology of music in the 20th century is not a desperately pleasant topic of conversation :)

but in some sense no, it's a continuation of the trend -- Art Music bifurcating from Popular Music

[18:40] kepstin-netbook_what I really need on here is cellphone-browser style relayout :/

wap.mb.org plz I totally want that for whne i'm on the go and I'm like "damn when was x album by y released again"and that sort of thing

@

you have Schönberg and the viennese school, and then you have unGerman or unRussian or generically unpatriotic music, with all the unpleasant consequences that that entails

CatCat: which phone you have?

would go great with an app for my phone to tag files on it as well

(I forget)

Android?

(because the Android app does that. not the tagging part)

I feel I am going to feel sorry I asked when I end up reading weird books on musicology in a few months, but Krystof: is there any decent entry-level stuff about all this?

reosarevok: that's a good question, actually, because I only play a musicologist on IRC, I'm not really one in real life

I'll ask the real experts

:)

also this is way too late for my period; I don't know anything about anything beyond 1750

Except computers!

(sorry, had to)

that's debatable :)

I'll let you know in a week or so if I remember enough about computers to teach my students

very interesting conversation re classical music guys

[20:57] hawke_I think that’s agreed — it’s the whole basis of having a CSG at all, right?

[20:57] hawke_people agree that there *is* classical music.

yes

hello reosarevok I have android

Did somebody call for a musicologist?

hi reosarevok

I have dragged mas01dl here so that he can suggest useful reading material!

hah

hi mas01dl

you asked for it!

I did ask for some entry-level stuff, yes

wow cool

a musicologist

re instrument and ordering and terminologi

reosarevok: I already had dl that app, it's pretty useless, it cant bve used ot tag with and only has this nag about donating

barcode submission doesn't work either

CatCat: you asked about checking years and stuff like that

well iwant to tag files too!

oh god don't get me started on instrument terminology

and i can browse the website in a browser fir that

mas01dl, entry-level stuff as in: books, internet sites if there's any decent one... mostly: I am interested but a total noob

I still have to hold my nose every time I say someone provided "contra-tenor vocals"

Hmm

would be cool jsut ot have a wap end for it so that it was less taxing on the browser

I really should revive that topic, shouldn't I? :)

(a mb. ord suited for phone browsers more)

Krystof suggested you guys were getting a little meta

(history writing itself, the concept of Classical music as Art, etc)

Krystof: we got to http://musicbrainz.1054305.n4.nabble.com/Counte...

And then I was lazy, and didn't generate that list :(

:D

No.

They'll still study it

Just as we study popular songs of the 16th Century

was that an answe to me?

Which also aren't Classical music

Yes, it was :)

CatCat: Yes, sorry

hawke: heh ^

so yea

mas01dl: the question I started with was when do we apply the CSG (classical style guide). So e.g. when do we set the track artist to "composer" rather than "performer".

\

alright but what about Howard shore, John Williams and Ennio Morocone?

Morricone

Well, the good news is that the style guide says nothing yet about when it should apply :-)

To me, I want to know the composer of a Kylie song just as much as (ok, much less than) a Schubert one

hmm

CatCat: Yeah, film music makes people who draw lines get headaches.

surely we want to know who the author of the auto-tune plugin was :)

To some extent that's reasonable -- Williams studied classical composition at the Julliard

Krystof: I want to know who autotuned Clegg

mas01dl: my argument is that it doesn't matter if John Wiliams is "classical". The question is more, is this recording of a John Williams work being presented in the classical idiom.

CallerNo6: Which is a better question -- after all, it's promoted as a John Williams score, not an LPO recording

classicla mnusic.. is.. the "work" more thna the "performance" as in, "everybody" and theri mom might know of Beethoven's 5th. but most people don't know about *specific* versions. but most people DO know the difference between Manson's and Soft Cell's "tainted Love" (incidentally both covers)

I'd argue that that's true only to an extent

yes

but thats it in the most basale way

and then the edge cases

Take Hallelujah or some other heavily covered pop song

all those

and the Movement of Deep Purple

Now grooving to: Junichi Masuda, Go Ichinose ~ Trainer Challenge Theme 5 (0:52) (from Pokémon Gold & Silver) (2000)

is it classicla music? it's composed most definitly

and thne bittunes

it gets... complicated way fast

Some Steve Reich was never scored, but only worked out amongst the players

Modern performances are covers, reconstructed from the recording

Oh, neat. Like the Zorn game pieces.

(maybe)

and thne you have the glorious thing, when "classicla" tune becomes a "pop tune" when idk disney or old times would get old classicla melodies and write words for it.

There're a few examples of `classical' pieces becoming `folk songs' and then becoming arranged into classical pieces again

or this: "if I had Words" melody originally a part of Saint-Saëns's symphony

Often bawdy songs becoming retexted

[21:44] mas01dlModern performances are covers, reconstructed from the recording this

erh

this

for "modern" classical music

like composers, philip glass or these score's music ofr films, games

they score and sometime direct/play what have you their own

thne it might get "covered" by some other orchestra or band even

i had my hands on this

a re-playing of the music of 3 of the first harry potter soundtracks

So mas01dl, if we can ask "is this recording performed/presented in the classical idiom" (and downplay the "classicalness" of the works themselves), then I'm stuck defining "classical idiom" which may or may not be easier than defining "classical music" itself.

it was a differnt orchesta playing

My favorite criterium so far is, "does it have an inane bucolic landscape on the cover?"

Isn't the question 'is this the sort of thing where people care who composed it more than they care who played it'?

Though I like the cover art option too

I was really put off the CSG by the idea that I should divide my collection up and mangle all the headings

I think the new one involves less mangling

Ooh, that'd be nice

though of course now my digitized collection is hopelessly inconsistent

s/digitized/format-shifted/

What happens if a singer sings some classical, some jazz and some folk songs on a single CD, do the fields leap around from track to track?

case in point: http://musicbrainz.org/release/b478d4e8-b199-44... (see track 10)

mas01dl: I'd personally avoid that whenever possible. I hate mixing the two "styles"

Brassens? Awesome