I wouldn't say add it if it was this "get the album and we'll give you a download code'
2013-02-12 04339, 2013
reosarevok
But if the stuff is actually on the disc you purchase, it kinda sounds better for it to be part of the release
2013-02-12 04348, 2013
nikki
sure. but we don't support it
2013-02-12 04338, 2013
reosarevok
Well, depends
2013-02-12 04308, 2013
reosarevok
I mean, the reasonable thing would probably be just not adding the discID and adding them at the end of the tracklist if that's how the release presents them
2013-02-12 04341, 2013
nikki
except that breaks cd lookups, so I wouldn't call it "supported"
2013-02-12 04303, 2013
reosarevok
Heh maybe
2013-02-12 04338, 2013
reosarevok
I guess cd lookups sound always less useful than any other thing to me because meh cds :)
2013-02-12 04344, 2013
Anoia
I had somethign similar and marked it as a download medium of the release iirc
2013-02-12 04348, 2013
nikki
(it would also break my tagging if I were trying to tag it :P)
meh. I can't find any useful tickets to point people to
2013-02-12 04346, 2013
reosarevok
You lost your powers when updating your Opera :(
2013-02-12 04352, 2013
nikki
more likely there are no good tickets about it. I know of the pre-gap track one (which, come to think of it, we could probably fix by allowing position to be zero and then ignoring position = 0 when counting tracks)
ListMyCDs: I don’t think it’s a good idea to differentiate the classical vs. non classical performances, regarding that christmas/pop arrangements thing.
2013-02-12 04345, 2013
hawke_1
It doesn’t hurt anything to have those extra performance ARs.
2013-02-12 04310, 2013
ListMyCDs
there's a big difference for classical listeners
2013-02-12 04336, 2013
ListMyCDs
If I like to see a list of Sibelius recordings, I don't like to see 200 recordings of pop versions
2013-02-12 04344, 2013
ListMyCDs
there's a good reason why libraries for example don't calogue these under classical works
2013-02-12 04337, 2013
ListMyCDs
one option would be having "arrangement" attribute for "recording of" relationship
2013-02-12 04347, 2013
ListMyCDs
like what we currently have for covers
2013-02-12 04302, 2013
ListMyCDs
at least then these would clearly be separated from the original work
2013-02-12 04358, 2013
hawke_1
But they are recordings of the original work.
2013-02-12 04324, 2013
hawke_1
I see no need for that separation.
2013-02-12 04338, 2013
ListMyCDs
They are not. My example about this christmas song for example. Most of these don't have piano lines written by Sibelius.
2013-02-12 04339, 2013
hawke_1
You just need to look at the artist.
2013-02-12 04301, 2013
hawke_1
If you’re looking for orchestral performances, then you want the ones that are by an orchestra…
2013-02-12 04354, 2013
uptown joined the channel
2013-02-12 04320, 2013
ListMyCDs
There's almost no point for adding original arrangements by the composer if it's ok to add whatever recordings to these.
2013-02-12 04353, 2013
ListMyCDs
Now all the works by composer are like "catch-all" if all arrangements can be linked to it.
2013-02-12 04356, 2013
ListMyCDs
What is the point of even mentioning in the name that something is "violin concerto" if it's ok to link mandolin version to it
2013-02-12 04351, 2013
reosarevok would agree with that, yep
2013-02-12 04303, 2013
ListMyCDs
this xmas song has 3 versions: 1. for voice and piano, 2. for male choir, 3. for mixed choir. So heave metal version (it really exists) could be linked to any of these 3 versions
2013-02-12 04324, 2013
ListMyCDs
if don't have some rules
2013-02-12 04334, 2013
hawke_1
Well, it’s already (I think) known that we need catchall/unknown/other versions.
2013-02-12 04307, 2013
ListMyCDs
the problem is that most of the works already are unknown versions because of the lack of separation
2013-02-12 04328, 2013
hawke_1
No, most of the works already are unknown versions because no one has bothered to create the separate works.
2013-02-12 04338, 2013
hawke_1
and clean them up.
2013-02-12 04327, 2013
ListMyCDs
but like I just described, there's no point to create separate works if it's ok to link heavy metal version with version for voice and piano
2013-02-12 04300, 2013
reosarevok
hawke_1: I'm not too sure there's any rule that "let's" us clean them up
2013-02-12 04329, 2013
reosarevok
lets
2013-02-12 04331, 2013
reosarevok
(as in, if someone was to add it to the main work now, were we to vote no, that'd be "wrong")
2013-02-12 04352, 2013
hawke_1
Seems simple to me: create the arrangement works you want, plus an unknown version work.
2013-02-12 04307, 2013
hawke_1
Then move the appropriate recordings to the right works, and any others to the unknown.
2013-02-12 04310, 2013
hawke_1
Those are all clearly fine.
2013-02-12 04335, 2013
ListMyCDs
that's one solution
2013-02-12 04340, 2013
hawke_1
And then you can no-vote the heavy metal version as “Not a performance of the mixed choir version, use unknown version instead”
2013-02-12 04345, 2013
hawke_1
(or whatever)
2013-02-12 04352, 2013
ListMyCDs
I'm happy with everything making it possible to separate these other versions from original versions
2013-02-12 04356, 2013
hawke_1
reosarevok: we don’t need a special rule for it. There are no rules against creating works for arrangements, and if one arrangement is clearly wrong (as it would be), we can safely no-vote that.
2013-02-12 04302, 2013
ListMyCDs
hawke: there's currently no rule but thanks to this RFC we would soon have "for arrangements made for a specific performance; use the recording - artist arranger AR"
2013-02-12 04310, 2013
hawke_1
The only real stipulation is that we need to have the works be clear so 1. people linking to them can find them, and 2. we can point to the clean separation of arrangements as a reason to point people to the correct one.
2013-02-12 04324, 2013
hawke_1
And to some extent that there should be more than one performance of a given arrangement.
2013-02-12 04340, 2013
hawke_1
And yes, this requires active participation in the moderation process. You can’t just sit back and hope people pick the right arrangement works.
2013-02-12 04303, 2013
ListMyCDs
if there's no more than one performance it could then go under some "catch-all" work instead of going to totally wrong work because of this rule
2013-02-12 04315, 2013
hawke_1
Yes, exactly.
2013-02-12 04320, 2013
hawke_1
wait
2013-02-12 04324, 2013
hawke_1
“because of this rule”?
2013-02-12 04333, 2013
hawke_1
You’re afraid that people will put it on the wrong work because…?
2013-02-12 04339, 2013
ListMyCDs
because of this "or arrangements made for a specific performance; use the recording - artist arranger AR"
2013-02-12 04357, 2013
ListMyCDs
if clearly gives and optioin to put arrangement to whatever work
2013-02-12 04302, 2013
hawke_1
No it doesn’t.
2013-02-12 04307, 2013
hawke_1
You still have to pick the best work for the case
2013-02-12 04315, 2013
ListMyCDs
nothing says that
2013-02-12 04319, 2013
hawke_1
that’s given!
2013-02-12 04344, 2013
ListMyCDs
so best pick for mandolin version of violin concerto would still be violin concerto
2013-02-12 04354, 2013
ijabz joined the channel
2013-02-12 04356, 2013
ListMyCDs
it still doesn't make any sense to use it
2013-02-12 04317, 2013
hawke_1
I can think of two reasons someone would pick the wrong work: 1. because they can’t find the right work (i.e. disambiguations are missing) or 2. because the right work doesn’t exist
2013-02-12 04336, 2013
hawke_1
or I guess 3. because the search fails, but that’s a different problem.
2013-02-12 04336, 2013
skd5aner joined the channel
2013-02-12 04351, 2013
ListMyCDs
I agree with those 3
2013-02-12 04330, 2013
ListMyCDs
but if MB has 3 versions: 1. for voice and piano, 2. for male choir, 3. for mixed choir. Which one to pick for heavy metal version?
2013-02-12 04341, 2013
ListMyCDs
I have instumentation on disambiguations
2013-02-12 04359, 2013
hawke_1
So in the first case, the works need fixing (which is the responsibility of someone who wants to keep e.g. Sibelius’s works associations clean) or the works need adding (same), or the search system needs to be fixed (bug report)
2013-02-12 04332, 2013
hawke_1
ListMyCDs: There should also be an “unknown/other” version.
