yeah i just speak english now. i plan on an early dementia
2013-03-10 06901, 2013
krazykiwi
I got accosted by a nice man in his 40's in the grocery store yesterday, cos I was bitching out 13yo daughter for knocking down all the chocolate on display in english
2013-03-10 06930, 2013
tinystoat
let me guess he's a father of 12 and raised every single one of them perfectly?
2013-03-10 06939, 2013
krazykiwi
and this guy comes running up the aisle I thought he was going to attack me, but he was just so excited to hear english (i live in a really tiny town in the middle of nowhere, population 1200) and could I help him and his wife buy groceries
2013-03-10 06913, 2013
krazykiwi
daughter is all "see, I totally did that on purpose, it was kismet", I was all "no you still can't buy all the chocolate that fell on the floor"
2013-03-10 06914, 2013
tinystoat
wow she's too clever
2013-03-10 06924, 2013
tinystoat
you better watch out for that one, you're in trouble
2013-03-10 06926, 2013
reosarevok
omnomnom kismet
2013-03-10 06933, 2013
intgr
Mineo: Re-uploaded all 3 releases.
2013-03-10 06954, 2013
speak
kismet++
2013-03-10 06954, 2013
tinystoat sends off another email to the company who shipped the organic turnips full of maggots
2013-03-10 06914, 2013
tinystoat
!seen kismet
2013-03-10 06957, 2013
reosarevok
My ex's mother always gave it to her son
2013-03-10 06924, 2013
reosarevok
And sometimes he got too much and I could get some of it :D
2013-03-10 06938, 2013
reosarevok
Yeah, I could buy it I guess, but that'd be boring :)
The back cover doesn't include track artists. They're listed in the booklet instead. We'd really go with the back cover because the booklet isn't prominent enough?
2013-03-10 06913, 2013
CallerNo6
oh, wait, it's not clear if what (if anything) is the back cover on that example. I can find another one if it matters. It's not uncommon.
2013-03-10 06917, 2013
CatCat
[15:39] nikki new zealand - US$19.72, denmark - $13.77, norway - $16.59, sweden - $17.02...
2013-03-10 06931, 2013
CatCat
and everything is supposed ot be more expensive here :P
2013-03-10 06934, 2013
CatCat
lol sweden
2013-03-10 06935, 2013
tinystoat has left the channel
2013-03-10 06923, 2013
CatCat
oh my ghoul the finns are coming out of the woodwork
2013-03-10 06944, 2013
CatCat
seriøst snakk om babelsk forvirring i chatloggen!
2013-03-10 06919, 2013
CatCat
LOL freso
2013-03-10 06902, 2013
CatCat
wtf is kismet?
2013-03-10 06931, 2013
CatCat is alays late :(
2013-03-10 06942, 2013
CatCat
and now it is bedtime for this old cat
2013-03-10 06944, 2013
CatCat
T_T
2013-03-10 06949, 2013
CatCat always a lone
2013-03-10 06933, 2013
Jozo
nikki: btw should all those different county asin's added too...
2013-03-10 06951, 2013
CatCat
a person!
2013-03-10 06954, 2013
CatCat
hello!
2013-03-10 06954, 2013
Jozo
CallerNo6: Use your best guess... not back cover. (Leftmost may disagree this)
2013-03-10 06958, 2013
CatCat
:(
2013-03-10 06907, 2013
Jozo
CallerNo6: When credits listed on booklet it's clear to use those
2013-03-10 06929, 2013
CatCat wonders why is being ignored by a freaking salt-brand
reosarevok: heh i look it up on google and found that :D
2013-03-10 06905, 2013
CatCat
they have this in estoina?
2013-03-10 06909, 2013
CatCat
estonia
2013-03-10 06910, 2013
CatCat
anyway ,natt
2013-03-10 06955, 2013
CallerNo6
Jozo, yeah, Leftmost got me thinking about the question.
2013-03-10 06906, 2013
STalKer-X joined the channel
2013-03-10 06921, 2013
Rondom joined the channel
2013-03-10 06908, 2013
nioncode joined the channel
2013-03-10 06935, 2013
Jozo
CallerNo6: It's common that full credits is not listed on backcover... but only somewhere else on sleeve
2013-03-10 06917, 2013
Jozo
CallerNo6: Especially on complication albums
2013-03-10 06930, 2013
CallerNo6
Jozo, yeah, that's my position too. I'm still trying to understand the position held by warp and leftmost.
2013-03-10 06909, 2013
CallerNo6
(and trying to understand if theirs is a widely-held position)
2013-03-10 06951, 2013
Jozo
CallerNo6: I suggest you use correct credit always when they are listed on somewhere on sleeve. And when they are not told on sleeve anywhere, use your best guess when it's possible.
2013-03-10 06950, 2013
Jozo
CallerNo6: Sleeves are also often wrong... So using common sense is good
2013-03-10 06957, 2013
CallerNo6
Oh, Jozo == kaik ?
2013-03-10 06900, 2013
Jozo
CallerNo6: yep
2013-03-10 06906, 2013
CallerNo6 is slow to catch on
2013-03-10 06916, 2013
Cook879 joined the channel
2013-03-10 06917, 2013
CallerNo6
I think the problem is the we're thinking of the track artist as a factual field, while they're thinking of it as a more fuzzy.
2013-03-10 06935, 2013
CallerNo6
In e.g. classical, it certianly is more fuzzy.
2013-03-10 06938, 2013
reosarevok
Well, artist credits for tracks are supposed to mean "whoever the release credits the tracks to"
Jozo: I can understand both points - so I'm kinda curious to see what style people think
2013-03-10 06942, 2013
reosarevok
I would generally just follow what the release says (and I've sometimes added feat. artists to tracks for a CD that lists them but not for the equivalent digital release that does not)
2013-03-10 06956, 2013
reosarevok
But I don't have a strong enough opinion to fight about it :p
2013-03-10 06909, 2013
reosarevok
(nor would I probably vote no if someone decided to "fix it")
2013-03-10 06941, 2013
Jozo
reosarevok: Release cover/sleeves are too often wrong... (Artist corrected things later and so)
2013-03-10 06931, 2013
CallerNo6
To me, it still seems arbitrary to say that a "track credit" is something found on the back cover, and must be prominent.
2013-03-10 06913, 2013
CallerNo6
Especially in the case of pop compilations.
2013-03-10 06922, 2013
reosarevok
Huh
2013-03-10 06957, 2013
reosarevok
Compilations are precisely the place where I'd expect a back-cover track credit
2013-03-10 06913, 2013
CallerNo6
It's common, sure. But it's not something I'd base a guideline on.
CallerNo6: sure, I wouldn't say "USE ONLY BACKCOVER!!!!"
2013-03-10 06945, 2013
Jozo
reosarevok: yes, everything else. but oneverywhere "Huhtikuussa" is replaced "Huhtikuu"
2013-03-10 06938, 2013
reosarevok
CallerNo6: I'd probably say something like "don't try to set every artist mention in the liner notes as track artist, but use only artists from what seem like credits". Only not-crappily written
2013-03-10 06959, 2013
reosarevok
Jozo: Hmm. I guess in theory at least that'd be a new release, yes...
2013-03-10 06941, 2013
Jozo
reosarevok: I add it as new release when I get scanner (to proof it :)
2013-03-10 06959, 2013
CallerNo6
reosarevok: the proposed guideline does't say "back cover", but it does say "track list". Which is commonly understood to be the list on the back cover.
2013-03-10 06909, 2013
reosarevok
Well, dunno
2013-03-10 06930, 2013
reosarevok
I pretty much default to classical lately which almost always has a second tracklist, heh :)
2013-03-10 06933, 2013
reosarevok
So I'm not even sure
2013-03-10 06933, 2013
Jozo
In classical releases I rarely follow printed tracklist...
2013-03-10 06951, 2013
reosarevok
hah, "Congratulations! Your mix Spanish Hip Hop 1997-2010 just received its 100th like, officially certifying it Gold"
2013-03-10 06920, 2013
CallerNo6
?
2013-03-10 06933, 2013
reosarevok
CallerNo6: just got mail from 8tracks
2013-03-10 06948, 2013
reosarevok
Jozo: I tend to try to kind-of follow it. Not *completely* as-is, usually I add or modify some bits, but trying to keep kinda close
2013-03-10 06920, 2013
Jozo
reosarevok: Yep
2013-03-10 06929, 2013
Jozo
reosarevok: (I have not lately added almost none classical release) but everytime I've added something, I have to edit tracklist somehow
2013-03-10 06943, 2013
Jozo
reosarevok: It may be cos I've often imported cd stub or freedb release... and it feels like editing tracklist when I'm really doing it
2013-03-10 06903, 2013
reosarevok
Nah, I mean, even from releases themselves, it often needs some touching
2013-03-10 06921, 2013
reosarevok
And I tend to add stuff like I. or No. 1. to titles, even though I maybe shouldn't
2013-03-10 06928, 2013
Freso
CatCat: Sover du?
2013-03-10 06921, 2013
Ben\Sput joined the channel
2013-03-10 06950, 2013
Ben\Sput has left the channel
2013-03-10 06940, 2013
JonnyJD_ joined the channel
2013-03-10 06919, 2013
derwin
reosarevok: what about 8tracks?
2013-03-10 06948, 2013
reosarevok
derwin: just what is two lines over where I mention 8tracks
2013-03-10 06959, 2013
derwin
oh I see
2013-03-10 06921, 2013
reosarevok
I didn't even know mixes could be "gold", that's how often I visit the site nowadays
2013-03-10 06939, 2013
reosarevok
But it seems people keep finding the old stuff and liking it! Which is nice I guess :)
(I mean, I already had the same argument on the edit itself, but I still don't see how those are track credits in any way)
2013-03-10 06941, 2013
CallerNo6
reosarevok: then maybe I don't understand what a track credit is.
2013-03-10 06932, 2013
reosarevok
For me it's the difference between it saying "track x, by this guy" and "track x, where this guys performed and this one did y and this other one did z"
2013-03-10 06930, 2013
reosarevok
This is totally like the standard liner notes format. You wouldn't add 5 people to the track of a David Bowie album because they happened to be listed as playing in it
2013-03-10 06945, 2013
reosarevok
I mean, if we were to do that we should just drop credits and use relationships only...
2013-03-10 06901, 2013
CallerNo6
Which makes sense on new material.
2013-03-10 06926, 2013
reosarevok
Hmm? What does'
2013-03-10 06931, 2013
reosarevok
The credits are supposed to be "how this is credited", not "what this is". If all the Reinhardt recordings appeared in a release that claimed to be Justin Bieber's, the credits would be to Justin Bieber
2013-03-10 06940, 2013
reosarevok
(but the relationships wouldn't be, clearly enough)
2013-03-10 06931, 2013
reosarevok
Same as we are supposed to credit Albinoni for "his" Adagio if a release does, even though it's not a fact that he wrote it - it's still the case that he's given the credit
2013-03-10 06941, 2013
CallerNo6
Presumably, on the Bieber release there'd be some reason. Some understanding as to /why/ a bunch of songs by somebody else are on his CD.
2013-03-10 06927, 2013
CallerNo6
(and so maybe that would make sense, I dunno)
2013-03-10 06942, 2013
reosarevok
Dunno
2013-03-10 06901, 2013
Jozo
Haha
2013-03-10 06902, 2013
reosarevok
There seems to be a clear reason why we have songs where other people performed too, credited to Django here
2013-03-10 06906, 2013
reosarevok
It's a Django comp
2013-03-10 06941, 2013
reosarevok
So for the credits here, Django is the main artist. Which doesn't mean we shouldn't store who else performed, but that's not (so) important for the purposes of the release
2013-03-10 06916, 2013
reosarevok
I mean, if this was a new release, I doubt people would consider using that small-print artist as the track artist at all
2013-03-10 06933, 2013
CallerNo6
That's kind of what I meant.
2013-03-10 06943, 2013
reosarevok
It's only being considered because they're the "canonic" artist for the recordings
2013-03-10 06954, 2013
reosarevok
but that would seem to be a great match for the recording artist
reosarevok: Should we follow this too? Credit works to wrong artist cos liner notes says
2013-03-10 06915, 2013
reosarevok
Jozo: the general idea seems to be for relationships to always represent facts about the music
2013-03-10 06918, 2013
reosarevok
So no, I wouldn't
2013-03-10 06921, 2013
CallerNo6
reosarevok: it's not clear to me that anybody intended to "credit" the tracks to the release artist. They simply emphasized different information in different places. What's so magical about tabular data on a back cover?
2013-03-10 06908, 2013
Jozo
reosarevok: classical music guestion... what I should do about this http://musicbrainz.org/release/cc5f4256-b580-4d46…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad%C3%A9la%C3%AFde_C… "Anh. 294a in the third edition of the standard Köchel catalogue of Mozart's works. ("Anh." denotes "Anhang" or "appendix" to the catalog.) Unknown until the 20th century, this concerto was later discovered to be a spurious work by Marius Casadesus."
2013-03-10 06931, 2013
CallerNo6
I mean, if the same back cover had the track artist in columnar form, it'd be a wall of text. It'd look like shit.
2013-03-10 06944, 2013
reosarevok
But the release and track credits are supposed to represent facts about the way the stuff is credited in the particular release, so in that case it would seem reasonable to keep attribution errors, or like in this case, attribution priorities
2013-03-10 06918, 2013
CallerNo6
I'm still not seeing what makes the back cover tracklist a priority.
2013-03-10 06932, 2013
CallerNo6
It's just one place to look.
2013-03-10 06921, 2013
reosarevok
And I'm still not seeing why the tiny-text there means those should be track credits. Nor why people care, anyway - aren't the relationships the truly useful bit of data anyway? :)
2013-03-10 06905, 2013
CallerNo6
ARs are where the decent data is, sure.
2013-03-10 06906, 2013
reosarevok
Jozo: I'd credit it pretty much like it is now. But it's annoying, because people will probably enter duplicates of the concert with Mozart as the composer, too
