So, pre-NGS, theatre style said to use "composer" for the artist. I assume this was to avoid collaboration artists with the lyricist.
2015-02-21 05231, 2015
CatQuest
and now to be stuck in my head that song is
2015-02-21 05210, 2015
pbryan
Yes, in most cases, musical theatre releases are associated with composer, like Andrew Lloyd Weber.
2015-02-21 05215, 2015
CallerNo6
And there was a controversial white list of collabs for "well known" writing duos.
2015-02-21 05221, 2015
pbryan
Yes.
2015-02-21 05240, 2015
CallerNo6
Post-NGS, that whitelist finally became official.
2015-02-21 05241, 2015
pbryan
The rationale for that is they are so well known as a collaboration.
2015-02-21 05204, 2015
pbryan
Nobody refers to The Mikado as Sullivan, it's Gilbert & Sullivan.
2015-02-21 05234, 2015
CallerNo6
right, understood
2015-02-21 05248, 2015
CallerNo6
It's the post-NGS part I don't understand.
2015-02-21 05203, 2015
pbryan
Ah, that's around the time I became scarce.
2015-02-21 05215, 2015
pbryan
I was around for the whitelist; I was an advocate of it.
2015-02-21 05234, 2015
CallerNo6
That's why I'm bugging you.
2015-02-21 05241, 2015
pbryan
:-)
2015-02-21 05228, 2015
CallerNo6
What I don't get is, once we had ACs, why go with the whitelist? collab artists were no longer a problem.
2015-02-21 05258, 2015
pbryan
IIRC, the thinking was the shortening of the names in the ACs.
2015-02-21 05218, 2015
pbryan
William GIlbert as Gilbert
2015-02-21 05244, 2015
pbryan
And the release artist is still composed of artists, so how that was to be represented.
2015-02-21 05223, 2015
pbryan
Unfortunately, it's made finding the collaborations difficult, because AFAIK, there's no way to search for both.
2015-02-21 05221, 2015
pbryan doesn't know if what he's saying right now is fully accurate; a lot has probably happened in a few years.
2015-02-21 05208, 2015
CallerNo6
yeah, understood
2015-02-21 05200, 2015
CallerNo6
the point of my question is, does the explicit "composer only, no lyricists" guideline for theatre make sense anymore?
2015-02-21 05224, 2015
pbryan
Hmm.
2015-02-21 05226, 2015
CallerNo6
i mean, that's not my question to you. it's my question to everybody.
2015-02-21 05232, 2015
pbryan
For RA, I'd say probably yes?
2015-02-21 05258, 2015
pbryan
Phantom of the Opera is by whom?
2015-02-21 05218, 2015
pbryan
Andrew Lloyd Webber
2015-02-21 05221, 2015
Freso
"Unfortunately, it's made finding the collaborations difficult, because AFAIK, there's no way to search for both." - search what? There should be ways, both for finding specifically named ACs and also for finding release( group)s and recordings with multiple specific artists.
2015-02-21 05232, 2015
pbryan
Do we think of the lyricist. Should Hart be up front?
2015-02-21 05243, 2015
Freso
(Maybe it's harder to find "clickably", but certainly not machine-searchably.)
2015-02-21 05255, 2015
CallerNo6
Oh, to be clear, there are two aspects to this question.
2015-02-21 05202, 2015
pbryan
Freso: Is there a way currently to select more than one artist for a search and only receive results that includes both?
2015-02-21 05215, 2015
CallerNo6
1. how do you credit releases that don't explicitly credit anybody on the cover?
2015-02-21 05203, 2015
Freso
pbryan: "arid:MBID1 AND arid:MBID2" using advanced search.
2015-02-21 05211, 2015
reosarevok would say "credit only the composer, unless the lyricist is also credited on the cover"
2015-02-21 05213, 2015
CallerNo6
2. does that also apply to releases where the composer/lyricists *are* credited explicitly on the cover?
2015-02-21 05250, 2015
pbryan
Right, I tend toward a solution that favours how the artist(s) are credited on the cover, or where it's demonstrably well known to be credited as such.
2015-02-21 05200, 2015
pbryan
IIRC, I was arguing against Composer-only to get the whitelist added, because it would have removed useful information. At the time I made the case of "commonly known collaborations" but cover credit makes sense too.
2015-02-21 05239, 2015
pbryan
Freso: Cool! Thanks, I'll definitely use it.
2015-02-21 05218, 2015
Freso
(Is using arid: a lot in work searches right now. :|)
2015-02-21 05227, 2015
madmouser1 joined the channel
2015-02-21 05202, 2015
Freso
Also, I just went and added a bunch of Sullivan (with and without Gilbert) works to the db.
2015-02-21 05207, 2015
pbryan
And I'm not sure what artist intent is when it comes to such cover credits. It may be someone comes along and re-releases something with different cover credits, so it's not always going to be cut and dried.
2015-02-21 05217, 2015
reosarevok
Freso: why not just go to the artist's realationship page? (ok, that doesn't work with aliases, but)
2015-02-21 05224, 2015
Freso
reosarevok: ?
2015-02-21 05232, 2015
reosarevok
sorry
2015-02-21 05252, 2015
CallerNo6
advanced search is good. you can also filter releases by AC from the artist page.
2015-02-21 05201, 2015
reosarevok
I meant, that if you want to find works from artist X, I've found just going to their relationships tab (which lists all relationships with no pagination) pretty useful
2015-02-21 05206, 2015
reosarevok
pbryan: generally, artist credits credit who's credited
2015-02-21 05224, 2015
pbryan
Sorry guys, gotta jet. I'll be back tonight sometime. Hope it helps. I'll be happy to discuss more.
2015-02-21 05237, 2015
Freso
reosarevok: Yeah, as you said, that doesn't search through aliases and doesn't do other normalising like ignoring "-"'s etc.
2015-02-21 05238, 2015
CallerNo6
thanks!
2015-02-21 05242, 2015
reosarevok
I guess the main question is "is there a reason to deviate from that in theatre", which seems to be "not really since people mostly known as a duo will be credited as such"
2015-02-21 05244, 2015
reosarevok
:)
2015-02-21 05215, 2015
CallerNo6
deviate from what?
2015-02-21 05221, 2015
reosarevok
Freso: I guess. I just find the search so irritating to use most of the time that I'm happy to deal with those downsides, unless I'm dealing with works in Japanese
2015-02-21 05230, 2015
reosarevok
CallerNo6: from just "credit who's credited"
2015-02-21 05230, 2015
CallerNo6
oh, nm
2015-02-21 05234, 2015
CallerNo6
got it
2015-02-21 05246, 2015
CallerNo6
the question of "who do I credit when the cover simply says 'Cast of <foo>'?" would still need a theatre-specific guideline, I'd think.
2015-02-21 05259, 2015
reosarevok
Yeah, sure
2015-02-21 05203, 2015
reosarevok
And when nobody is credited
2015-02-21 05203, 2015
Freso
reosarevok: I've dealt with a few Russian works in the last couple of days... :)
2015-02-21 05238, 2015
WizJin joined the channel
2015-02-21 05208, 2015
fiff joined the channel
2015-02-21 05246, 2015
fiff
trying to catalogue nightcore tracks is a bloody nightmare.
2015-02-21 05208, 2015
reosarevok
What's nigthcore?
2015-02-21 05250, 2015
fiff
nightcore is two separate but closely related things.
2015-02-21 05251, 2015
fiff
a norwegian electronic group that released some doublespeed trance music
2015-02-21 05247, 2015
fiff
and an associated youtube phenomenon by which heaps and heaps of other (usually electronic) music that is similarly sped up.
Heh. Listening to some now, surprisingly decent :)
2015-02-21 05234, 2015
fiff
not actually that bad.
2015-02-21 05249, 2015
fiff
just...really difficult to list properly on mb
2015-02-21 05229, 2015
fiff
since it's mostly distributed either in dubious compilations via filesharing/torrents, or as individual tracks that you'd have to download off of youtube.
2015-02-21 05202, 2015
reosarevok
Well, we do allow standalone recordings
2015-02-21 05203, 2015
fiff
standalone under the original artist (even when heavily remixed by unknown other artists with additional content?)
2015-02-21 05215, 2015
fiff
standalone under unknown artist (i hope not)?
2015-02-21 05228, 2015
fiff
standalone under Nightcore (may or not be the actual remixer)?
2015-02-21 05205, 2015
reosarevok
Oh, so other people are putting songs out there too and they're credited in the same way?
2015-02-21 05224, 2015
reosarevok
That's... tricky, yeah
2015-02-21 05250, 2015
Julior joined the channel
2015-02-21 05247, 2015
fiff
right. there's no real differentiating between tracks by the original nightcore artist, and all of the music that has come later.
2015-02-21 05224, 2015
fiff
furthermore, the original Nightcore band isn't always interested in disavowing tracks that weren't originally remixed by them
2015-02-21 05251, 2015
fiff
and later anonymous remixers have further some tracks that were first remixed by the "original nightcore"
2015-02-21 05229, 2015
fiff
it seems like the best possible solution would be to catalog as many of the ersatz torrent compilations as possible, and add other tracks in some other way.
2015-02-21 05251, 2015
humhumxx joined the channel
2015-02-21 05221, 2015
fiff_ joined the channel
2015-02-21 05220, 2015
CallerNo6
Going back to findability, it couldn't hurt to add a "Gilbert & Sullivan" alias to both G and S.
2015-02-21 05253, 2015
madmouser1 joined the channel
2015-02-21 05236, 2015
Henke37 joined the channel
2015-02-21 05253, 2015
Henke37
is it possible to have one artist credited multiple times in the same artist credit?
2015-02-21 05214, 2015
reosarevok
Yes
2015-02-21 05220, 2015
Freso
There's nothing blocking it anyway.
2015-02-21 05244, 2015
Henke37
crazy people playing with themselves
2015-02-21 05217, 2015
reosarevok
I've used it a few times in cases where a classical composer performs/conducts his own compositions
2015-02-21 05217, 2015
Freso
^ crazy people
2015-02-21 05202, 2015
CatCat
ahahahaa
2015-02-21 05253, 2015
Henke37
you guys should have seen Melodifestivalen a couple of minutes ago
2015-02-21 05203, 2015
Henke37
a guy was quite litterally playing with himself
2015-02-21 05219, 2015
CallerNo6
that can be festive
2015-02-21 05226, 2015
CallerNo6
i guess
2015-02-21 05240, 2015
v6lur_ joined the channel
2015-02-21 05238, 2015
fiff joined the channel
2015-02-21 05213, 2015
fiff
is there a way to add a relation saying that a release by one artist is a remixed version of a release by another artist?
2015-02-21 05202, 2015
KRSCuan
fiff: You can add that relationship between release groups.
